Magnetic Resonance Therapy -- anyone tried this?

Discuss autism diets and biomedical treatments of autism.

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kulkulkan
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Re: Magnetic Resonance Therapy -- anyone tried this?

Postby kulkulkan » Thu Jul 03, 2014 5:08 pm

Wasn't impressed with Dr. Jin's presentation and didn't like the excessive/ over the top marketing spin in the presentation - but the study results, if can be replicated by the university in much larger RCT trial (n=400), are impressive. 20% of the kids were non-responders. Looks like they did exclude data from one higher functioning child with low CARS score in the data set post-selection (which might have been in the sham group; and presumably this child did well even without MRT); maybe this was to get statistical significance.

Here is a case report of use of transcranial magnetic stimulation in 15 year old with Autism & depression (can only read the first page which is most of the article). Though there were no controls or objective measures, anecdotal improvements in autistic disorder behaviors in addition to mood were noted.

http://journals.lww.com/ectjournal/Cita ... 99577.aspx

Lots of promise here but will wait for the large RCT trial.

Momof3
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Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:34 am

Re: Magnetic Resonance Therapy -- anyone tried this?

Postby Momof3 » Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:35 pm

How was the MRT therapy at the Brain Treatment Center for those who tried it? We are considering going to California next summer to have my daughter undergo MRT. I'd love to know your opinions.
Thanks

Santosg
Posts: 196
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2014 5:33 am

Re: Magnetic Resonance Therapy -- anyone tried this?

Postby Santosg » Tue Dec 09, 2014 4:46 am

Momof3 wrote:How was the MRT therapy at the Brain Treatment Center for those who tried it? We are considering going to California next summer to have my daughter undergo MRT. I'd love to know your opinions.
Thanks


Hey Momof3,

I have been fascinated by magnetic therapy. Certainly, you can find an enormous literature on its medical uses. It is, however, still in the earliest stages of use for children with autism. Now as a parent with an autistic child, as everyone here, we all know how desperately we want to find THE treatment that will make our child better. I really don't feel I should argue for or against you deciding to go to the BTC. Instead, I think that you should really try to understand the scientific basis on which the treatment has been developed. The brain is primarily an electro-chemical system. It is for this reason that magnetic therapy works. But, it also underlies the complexity and risks that such therapies carry.

The brain's memories are encoded in electrical patterns. Cells communicate on the basis of action potentials. So, I strongly suggest that you read up as much as possible on how BTC works. How powerful are the magnets. You can bolster IQ points in rats with magnets as well as humans, but often the results are temporary. And the magnets are often huge. Are the magnets focused on specific areas of the brain that are shown to be less metabolically active or globally, etc.

The doctor's should be willing to answer these very fundamental questions and their answers should find their foundation in available literature on pubmed. Once you're at that stage, you'll be able to make a decision for your child that is really informed one way or another.

happymom2
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:54 am

Re: Magnetic Resonance Therapy -- anyone tried this?

Postby happymom2 » Tue Dec 09, 2014 8:27 am

It sounds a lot like something I was told was called "neurofeedback". I can't get a clear difference between the two from the article and my (quick) google search seemed to mix the names sometimes. If it is neurofeedback, then Bradstreet isn't the only one using it, but he's probably the one with enough cash and connections to get a trial up an going. Neubrander in NJ uses it also, as does one of the autism doctors around here, so there are probably others. It is one of the things the "sleep centers" that seem to be popping up everywhere use. There are several different types.

Anyway, if it is neurofeed back, we used it with positive results. Friends of ours whose son is older, much more affected, and who went untreated for much longer also got good results.
Happymom

Momof3
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Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:34 am

Re: Magnetic Resonance Therapy -- anyone tried this?

Postby Momof3 » Tue Dec 09, 2014 8:33 am

How did this work out for those who tried it? We are considering going there next summer

FatherOf2
Posts: 1593
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:37 am

Re: Magnetic Resonance Therapy -- anyone tried this?

Postby FatherOf2 » Sat Jun 13, 2015 1:40 am

A friend of mine attended a presentation by Kevin Murphy, Associate Professor and Director of Central Nervous System Tumors and Pediatric Radiation Oncology Services, UCSD Moores Cancer Center, at the Rock Stars of Innovation. The presentation entitled "Magnetic Resonance Therapy: A Novel Approach in the Treatment of Neurocognitive Disorders". I should note that the UCSD Moores Cancer Center is not some hokey-pokey health clinic, but a premier cancer research and treatment organization. Apparently, Kevin's son has Aspergers, and he tried MRT on him and was astounded by the results. In a normal brain, EEG shows that all parts of the brain are working at the same "pace". In autistic kids, the executive function is slow, while visual, etc parts of the brain are working normally. The researchers used MRI to focus energy 10,000 weaker than the one used for MRI scans on the "sleeping" part of the brain to stimulate it noninvasively. The EEG data of Kevin's son was presented 2 years after the therapy was done, and still showed the improvements.

FatherOf2
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Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:37 am

Re: Magnetic Resonance Therapy -- anyone tried this?

Postby FatherOf2 » Sat Jun 13, 2015 3:18 pm

This video is worth watching:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuUcXPs-u2o

Winnie
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Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 2:48 pm

Re: Magnetic Resonance Therapy -- anyone tried this?

Postby Winnie » Sat Jun 13, 2015 3:34 pm

Thanks for the link-- interesting and potentially promising area of study -- will watch.

There are a number of legit researchers/research entities looking at TMS for use with neurological conditions (sans the marketing spin of Bradstreet and Jin) -- like the Berenson-Allen Center for Noninvasive Brain Stimulation. Some published studies in this area can be found listed by year on their publications page (follows are some citations that are autism-specific):
http://www.tmslab.org/research-publications.php

•Oberman LM, Enticott PG, Casanova MF, Rotenberg A, Pascual-Leone A, McCracken JT. Transcranial magnetic stimulation (TMS) therapy for autism: an international consensus conference held in conjunction with the international meeting for autism research on May 13th and 14th, 2014. Front Hum Neurosci. 2015 Jan 6;8:1034
http://www.tmslab.org/publications/548.pdf

•Oberman LM, Pascual-Leone A, Rotenberg A. Modulation of corticospinal excitability by transcranial magnetic stimulation in children and adolescents with autism spectrum disorder. Front Hum Neurosci. 2014 Aug 13; 8:627
http://www.tmslab.org/publications/531.pdf

•Oberman L and Rotenberg A. Use of transcranial magnetic stimulation in autism spectrum disorders. J Austism Dev Disorders. 2013
http://www.tmslab.org/publications/437.pdf


Other papers presented at the 2015 International Meeting for Autism Research (IMFAR) last month:

Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation Treatment: Focusing on Core Pathological Features of Autism Spectrum Disorders
Friday, May 15, 2015
Imperial Ballroom (Grand America Hotel)
M. F. Casanova, Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences, University of Louisville, Louisville, KY
https://imfar.confex.com/imfar/2015/webprogram/Paper18857.html

Repetitive Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation over the Dorsolateral Prefrontal Cortex and Posterior Superior Temporal Sulcus Improves Core Symptoms of Autism
Friday, May 15, 2015
Imperial Ballroom (Grand America Hotel)
H. C. Ni1,2, J. Hung3 and Y. Z. Huang3, (1)National Taiwan University Hospital, Taipei, Taiwan, (2)Psychiatry, Chang Gung Memorial Hospital, Taoyuan, Taiwan, (3)Neurology, Chang Gung Memorial Hospital, Taoyuan, Taiwan
https://imfar.confex.com/imfar/2015/webprogram/Paper19995.html

(some overlap with studies above) Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation Provides a Means to Investigate Cortical Excitability and Plasticity in Autism Spectrum Disorder
Friday, May 15, 2015
Imperial Ballroom (Grand America Hotel)
L. M. Oberman, Brown University, Providence, RI
https://imfar.confex.com/imfar/2015/webprogram/Paper18848.html

Clinical Trials of Deep Repetitive Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation (rTMS) to Bilateral Dorsomedial Prefrontal Cortex in Autism Spectrum Disorder
Friday, May 15, 2015
Imperial Ballroom (Grand America Hotel)
P. G. Enticott, Cognitive Neuroscience Unit, School of Psychology, Deakin University, Burwood, Australia
https://imfar.confex.com/imfar/2015/webprogram/Paper18846.html

Novel Neuromodulation Therapy Integrating rTMS and Neurofeedback for the Treatment of Autism Spectrum Disorders
Friday, May 15, 2015
Imperial Ballroom (Grand America Hotel)
M. F. Casanova1, E. M. Sokhadze1, A. S. El-Baz2, A. Tasman1, Y. Wang1 and L. L. Sears3, (1)Psychiatry and Behavioral Science, University of Louisville, Louisville, KY, (2)Bioengineering, University of Louisville, Louisville, KY, (3)University of Louisville, Louisville, KY
https://imfar.confex.com/imfar/2015/webprogram/Paper18902.html


There are probably others – just did a cursory search of the 2015 meeting.


***The presentations/abstracts of studies presented at IMFAR each year are archived and can be searched by topic and by year here (choose year first, then use search field):

http://www.autism-insar.org/imfar-annual-meeting/archive-abstracts

The abstract book from each year can also be downloaded and searched from the same link, but since these are now over 700 pages long, it’s easier to use the search above.
Winnie
"Make it a powerful memory, the happiest you can remember."

Winnie
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Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 2:48 pm

Re: Magnetic Resonance Therapy -- anyone tried this?

Postby Winnie » Sat Jun 13, 2015 5:13 pm

FatherOf2 wrote:This video is worth watching:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuUcXPs-u2o


It was worth watching -- very interesting talk. The change in his son (esp how a the normalizing eeg translates to those handwriting samples) over such a short period was remarkable. I wish he didn't have to cram all that into 20 minutes.

Made me think of a related question -- by chance do you have an eeg prior to using hbot that you could compare to a post-hbot eeg?
Winnie
"Make it a powerful memory, the happiest you can remember."

FatherOf2
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Re: Magnetic Resonance Therapy -- anyone tried this?

Postby FatherOf2 » Sat Jun 13, 2015 7:39 pm

I have EEG from right before HBOT, but not after. After watching that video I decided to transfer temporal EEG data to frequency domain to see which parts of my son's brain are sleeping. I am still working on it. The idea of synchronizing neuronal firing with MRT seems appealing to me. By the way, ever since HBOT, my son has been on a steady improvement trajectory in terms of speech, play and eye contact. Finally he plays with cars like a normal boy. Floor/play time therapy started at the same time as HBOT also helped.

FatherOf2
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Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:37 am

Re: Magnetic Resonance Therapy -- anyone tried this?

Postby FatherOf2 » Sun Jun 14, 2015 12:37 am

I just finished plotting EEG spectra for my son. I was using Natus Neuroworks to read the data, then export it to a text file, then load it to eeglab, then plot spectra. I don't see 10Hz peak (alpha wave) on any of 40 recorded channels (example of a "normal" EEG with a 10Hz peak is here http://sccn.ucsd.edu/wiki/Chapter_03:_Plotting_Channel_Spectra_and_Maps). I took different 5-minute time slots of the same EEG data to confirm the absence of alpha waves. I don't see any pronounced peaks at 4Hz or 6Hz either. Being an engineer, I plot spectra of time domain data almost every day. So, I doubt that I am doing something wrong. Could it be that all parts of my son's brain are "sleeping"? I am going to talk to our neurologist on Monday.

Is there a way to attach a picture to posts here?

Winnie
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Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 2:48 pm

Re: Magnetic Resonance Therapy -- anyone tried this?

Postby Winnie » Sun Jun 14, 2015 6:08 pm

FatherOf2 wrote:I just finished plotting EEG spectra for my son. I was using Natus Neuroworks to read the data, then export it to a text file, then load it to eeglab, then plot spectra. I don't see 10Hz peak (alpha wave) on any of 40 recorded channels (example of a "normal" EEG with a 10Hz peak is here http://sccn.ucsd.edu/wiki/Chapter_03:_Plotting_Channel_Spectra_and_Maps). I took different 5-minute time slots of the same EEG data to confirm the absence of alpha waves. I don't see any pronounced peaks at 4Hz or 6Hz either. Being an engineer, I plot spectra of time domain data almost every day. So, I doubt that I am doing something wrong. Could it be that all parts of my son's brain are "sleeping"? I am going to talk to our neurologist on Monday.

Is there a way to attach a picture to posts here?


This is really interesting -- I don't know of any parent who has ever done anything like that. Not that I know boo about plotting this data, but I'd be interested in seeing what you found (with your explanation).

If you want to post a picture, you can take a screenshot (if necessary) and load it onto a photo site like photobucket. The photo site should give you options, one of which is the link containing the code which will make the pic show up in your post when posted on the forum.

(and glad to hear your son is doing so well, btw)
Winnie
"Make it a powerful memory, the happiest you can remember."

kulkulkan
Posts: 2075
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:37 pm

Re: Magnetic Resonance Therapy -- anyone tried this?

Postby kulkulkan » Tue Jun 16, 2015 2:22 pm

FatherOf2 wrote:I just finished plotting EEG spectra for my son. I was using Natus Neuroworks to read the data, then export it to a text file, then load it to eeglab, then plot spectra. I don't see 10Hz peak (alpha wave) on any of 40 recorded channels (example of a "normal" EEG with a 10Hz peak is here http://sccn.ucsd.edu/wiki/Chapter_03:_Plotting_Channel_Spectra_and_Maps). I took different 5-minute time slots of the same EEG data to confirm the absence of alpha waves. I don't see any pronounced peaks at 4Hz or 6Hz either. Being an engineer, I plot spectra of time domain data almost every day. So, I doubt that I am doing something wrong. Could it be that all parts of my son's brain are "sleeping"? I am going to talk to our neurologist on Monday.

Is there a way to attach a picture to posts here?


Perhaps the data set included some "sleeping period" (if overnight EEG)? What did the neurologist think? In the YouTube video that you linked, almost all of the peaks in ASD vs comparison seemed to be below 4Hz; with exception of the visual processing part of the brain where 10Hz peaks were found. So, I would think there is likely 10Hz peak somewhere in the data.

Interestingly, the rTMS double blind studies that saw efficacy in ASD used low frequency only 1-5Hz. Not sure what frequencies does MRT using QEEG feedback use (Chemobrain is a terrible name) - the Bradstreet/MRT trial referenced in the youtube video isn't published yet and even if it does get published, I doubt they will disclose protocol details.

FatherOf2
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Re: Magnetic Resonance Therapy -- anyone tried this?

Postby FatherOf2 » Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:23 pm

Momof3 wrote:How did this work out for those who tried it? We are considering going there next summer

Momof3, how did it go? Has anyone else tried MRT?

draganaj
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:05 am

Re: Magnetic Resonance Therapy -- anyone tried this?

Postby draganaj » Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:21 am

Hi All,

We did tried MRT this summer in California. The results are very promissing.
Our son was nonverbal, and now he has started Speech. So far we gained approx 10 Words. We finished MRT in early August, he was back to Speech therapy midd August. So i do hope it is begin.
More important, he has improve a lot on sensory and cognitive Field. Hes receptive Language is great. Before treatment he would allways freak out and run away when he hears loud sounds such as tractors, lownmover and now we are at the stage when he notice it but continue With his Activity With no disturbance. After one week of treatment we managed to get him sitting for 30 mins to watch Dolphins show at Seaworld. That was mission impossible before.
His hyperactivity decreased very substantialy after the treatment. In general i would say he is more "present" and "With us" now.
We did 5 weeks (1 trial week-4 weeks) in total 24 therapies. This is all about his clinical Picture and how much it has changed.
The EEG has changed a lot, too.
They discovered that his brain had theta Waves dominant when calm, which is normal untill age of 1,5.He has had alpha Waves but not dominant as it should be. In addition his brain was working very slow, on the approx 4 HZ (NT should work in the range of 8-12).
What they focused in his protocol is that they speed up the brain and pushed theta towards alpha Waves.
We ended up on his brain speed being 9hz,lost 80% theta Waves, With Alpha being dominant.

Hope this explains a bit to all of you.

I would recommend to try (you never know if that will work, untill you give a try), we took a risk of being costly With no any promisse that would work.
I do think it requires more rounds but as i understand there is no therapy that could do miracle to Our kids

FatherOf2
Posts: 1593
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:37 am

Re: Magnetic Resonance Therapy -- anyone tried this?

Postby FatherOf2 » Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:17 pm

draganaj wrote:Hi All,

We did tried MRT this summer in California. The results are very promissing.
Our son was nonverbal, and now he has started Speech. So far we gained approx 10 Words. We finished MRT in early August, he was back to Speech therapy midd August. So i do hope it is begin.
More important, he has improve a lot on sensory and cognitive Field. Hes receptive Language is great. Before treatment he would allways freak out and run away when he hears loud sounds such as tractors, lownmover and now we are at the stage when he notice it but continue With his Activity With no disturbance. After one week of treatment we managed to get him sitting for 30 mins to watch Dolphins show at Seaworld. That was mission impossible before.
His hyperactivity decreased very substantialy after the treatment. In general i would say he is more "present" and "With us" now.
We did 5 weeks (1 trial week-4 weeks) in total 24 therapies. This is all about his clinical Picture and how much it has changed.
The EEG has changed a lot, too.
They discovered that his brain had theta Waves dominant when calm, which is normal untill age of 1,5.He has had alpha Waves but not dominant as it should be. In addition his brain was working very slow, on the approx 4 HZ (NT should work in the range of 8-12).
What they focused in his protocol is that they speed up the brain and pushed theta towards alpha Waves.
We ended up on his brain speed being 9hz,lost 80% theta Waves, With Alpha being dominant.

Hope this explains a bit to all of you.

I would recommend to try (you never know if that will work, untill you give a try), we took a risk of being costly With no any promisse that would work.
I do think it requires more rounds but as i understand there is no therapy that could do miracle to Our kids

It is pretty impressive, draganaj. How old is your son?

draganaj
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:05 am

Re: Magnetic Resonance Therapy -- anyone tried this?

Postby draganaj » Fri Oct 09, 2015 2:35 am

He is 5,5 yo

FatherOf2
Posts: 1593
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:37 am

Re: Magnetic Resonance Therapy -- anyone tried this?

Postby FatherOf2 » Fri Oct 09, 2015 3:51 pm

How long ago did you finish MRT? I am curious if the gains from MRT stay after a few months.

draganaj
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:05 am

Re: Magnetic Resonance Therapy -- anyone tried this?

Postby draganaj » Fri Oct 09, 2015 4:58 pm

We have had last treatment August 2nd. The doctors explained to us that it will keep brain stimulation for next 6-7 months with other treatments that supports MRT. Their advice is once you stop should not repeat before period of 10 months ( let brain set up new baseline).


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