Piracetam

Discuss autism diets and biomedical treatments of autism.

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luis
Posts: 257
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:42 pm

Re: Piracetam

Postby luis » Wed May 15, 2013 12:29 am

FatherOf2 wrote: Also, check their address: 1765 Garnet #66, San Diego, CA 92109 on Google maps. I see a small apartment building in a poor neighborhood (can judge by the bars on windows) with a front sign LiveScan. Obviously, this is a one-man operation from his apartment. I would call and ask a question where do they make their stuff. If this is where they make it, I would be concerned.


Fantastic, FatherOf2 !!!
Parents here are real life heroes.

CdB
Posts: 279
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:12 pm

Re: Piracetam

Postby CdB » Wed May 07, 2014 12:51 pm

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15071842

Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) is the most common cause of behavioral and learning problems in childhood. Therapeutic efficiency of nootropil (piracetam) in two different doses has been evaluated in the open control study of 80 children with ADHD, 70 boys and 10 girls, aged 6-11 years, being divided into 3 groups. Two groups received nootropil, as a monotherapy, for a month: 1st group (30 patients)--in the dosage of 70 mg/kg daily and 2nd group (30 patients)--40 mg/kg daily orally. The control group of 20 patients did not receive any treatment. All children were examined twice with one month interval. A procedure of assessment included of structured questionnaire to parents, neurological examination with scored evaluation of subtle signs and psychological testing. Nootropil therapy in ADHD children resulted in the improvement of behavioral characteristics, motor coordination as well as continuous, selective and divided attention. A response rate was 60% in patients received 70 mg/kg of nootropil and 43% for nootropil dosage of 40 mg/kg. The results of the study suggest more considerable positive therapeutic effects of nootropil higher dose on behavioral, motor and attention characteristics in children with ADHD.

Irinka
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:54 pm

Re: Piracetam

Postby Irinka » Thu May 08, 2014 12:12 pm

We tried Galantamine (small doses) and my son got very hyper a lot of screaming and stimming with not much of noticeable improvements. I have ordered Piracetam through Internationaldrugmart and it sits in our cabinet and I am too scared to give it a try. I may give it a try after reading this thread.
I'll update on how he does with it.
Thank you.

alexsdad
Posts: 134
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2011 1:31 pm

Re: Piracetam

Postby alexsdad » Thu May 08, 2014 8:53 pm

Irinka wrote:We tried Galantamine (small doses) and my son got very hyper a lot of screaming and stimming with not much of noticeable improvements. I have ordered Piracetam through Internationaldrugmart and it sits in our cabinet and I am too scared to give it a try. I may give it a try after reading this thread.
I'll update on how he does with it.
Thank you.


http://www.internationaldrugmart.com/

Just had an on-line chat with a rep from this site. Looks like you can buy Piracetam without a prescription???

Irinka
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:54 pm

Re: Piracetam

Postby Irinka » Fri May 09, 2014 11:02 am

Yes, that is where we bought Piracetam and it didn't require any prescription. They accept Visa cards only.
We are getting prescription for Galantamine and our insurance pays for it but I didn't know we can get prescription for Piracetam also.

alexsdad
Posts: 134
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2011 1:31 pm

Re: Piracetam

Postby alexsdad » Fri May 09, 2014 2:43 pm

Ok... I don't want to sidetrack this thread but I thought it requires a prescription. Or maybe it's in the gray area. I saw the below while I was googling. Still kind of confusing:

http://nootriment.com/is-piracetam-legal/

Piracetam is legal in the United States and does not require a prescription to possess or purchase this nootropic powder. However, under FDA rules it cannot be marketed as a supplement for human consumption. That means you can buy pure piracetam powder but you will not find it in any pre-made nootropic stacks or in pill format.


I actually asked my son't neurologist to call me to discuss this. My son had seizures when he was younger and I read Piracetam can potentially trigger seizure activity so stopped looking at it. Now I want to look into again but thinking of doing it under the neurologist's supervision. (if he agrees) Otherwise I was going to call our DAN but this site may save me a call to the DAN.

biomed_dad
Posts: 223
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:38 pm

Re: Piracetam

Postby biomed_dad » Tue May 13, 2014 12:14 pm

We ordered it from here just recently:

http://hbcprotocols.com/piracetam.html

Irinka
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:54 pm

Re: Piracetam

Postby Irinka » Tue May 13, 2014 11:52 pm

biomed_dad wrote:We ordered it from here just recently:

http://hbcprotocols.com/piracetam.html


Did you start using it? If so, can you please share your experience with it.

Thank you!

CdB
Posts: 279
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:12 pm

Re: Piracetam

Postby CdB » Wed May 14, 2014 9:24 am

http://www.neurobrainstorm.com/2012/12/ ... -some.html

Why Piracetam doesn't Work for some people Author: Kevin Loftis

Piracetam (this includes all racetams) needs additional supplements to be fully effective.[1] Even in the scientific community, people used to be confused of its mechanism of action. Now we have research that hasn't been discussed that will help us add additional supplements to increase its effects.

Mechanism
Piracetam works via AMPA receptors (mainly). AMPA receptors need the adrenal glands for signal transmission.[2] This means piracetam can be enhanced (or actually made "work") by things that also simulate adrenal function. Adrenal stimulation is why people often load piracetam until they see benefits.

The adrenal glands influence the brain in a way to release more glutamate in the brain via potassium(simplified). This glutamate is great for memory but eventually degrades into gaba.[4] Gaba is a chemical that will lead to lowered memory. Gaba release is why people feel less anxiety from taking piracetam.

Piracetam's Side effects
The side effects of piracetam are very serious, and also common among people who report it to be working. These side effects are not permanent nor are they reported to be toxic/dangerous. These side effects come from two different mechanisms.
Since piracetam works by activating AMPA receptors it can cause lowered adrenal gland function. This "adrenal fatigue" is reported all of the time despite all of the safety this compound has been said to have.
Piracetam also can cause anxiety after prolonged use. This is due to its anxiolytic effect. This anxiety is most likely the cause of the aforementioned adrenal fatigue. People usually take cycles of piracetam to combat this, but for some it doesn't prevent side effects.

How to make Piracetam Work
Piracetam often doesn't work for people because their adrenals are less sensitive to stimulation or their body/brain is in a disease state. Adrenal support supplements will synergize and make piracetam work correctly. Pregnenolone works as a precursor to adrenal function.

Rats given choline and piracetam have better memory than just choline groups and just piracetam groups. Studies have shown that piracetam raises choline levels as much as 88% even without choline intake.[5] Piracetam alone lowers acetylcholine by about 18% (not good). ALCAR would counteract the lowered acetylcholine levels.

Humans have a diet that includes choline, so choline might not be neccesary, but ALCAR is something that would be necessary.

Often people get headaches when taking ALCAR because their choline/acetyl levels are imbalanced. If that is the case, you must take choline as well, but you'll have to work with your personal dosage.

Large doses of piracetam affect people in a similar way as a medium dose (bell shaped curve) because the glutamate is being converted into gaba (Glutamate decarboxylase).

If you block the gaba then you will see only benefits from larger doses of piracetam. Dihydromyricetin in a safe dose will help bring out the benefits.

I've had good experiences with vaping piracetam. The effects seem to work better,faster, and more efficiently. I would make sure your batch is free of toxins and dont vaporize the other natural compounds in this stack. I wouldn't recommend smoking anything.

Piracetam (or nootpept)
ALCAR
Choline
Dihydromyricetin (or other natural gaba antagonist)
Pregnenolone (or other natural adrenal support)

Synergistics:
Uridine
MCT Oil
Unsweetened Cocoa

Do Nots:
Caution L-theanine (or tea) intake with piracetam as it inhibits some effects from piracetam. L-theanine is a partial inhibitor of AMPA receptors.
Do not just drink enough water to swallow the pill, drink a whole cup due to piracetams water soluble properties.
Do not drink milk with piracetam, not enough is known whether milk blocks absorption so id reccomend just drinking 45 minutes later or more.

*Warning* Remove the dihydromyricetin dose if you are sensitive to gaba (have seizures) or if you take other gaba antagonists for example, pregnenolone is a gaba agonist but pregnenolone sulfate is a gaba antagonist. Always ask your doctor before you try any supplements.

CdB
Posts: 279
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:12 pm

Re: Piracetam

Postby CdB » Wed May 14, 2014 12:16 pm


FatherOf2
Posts: 1667
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:37 am

Re: Piracetam

Postby FatherOf2 » Thu May 15, 2014 4:33 pm

We gave 800mg/day of Piracetam to our son 2 years ago for 9 months non-stop. It helped him to start talking (within days!) and have better memory. No adrenal fatigue. I've researched Piracetam very thoroghly and never heard of such thing as adrenal fatigue from Piracetam. It is very safe and doesn't even have LD50 (some rats choked to death when researchers tried to shove too much piracetam powder in their mouth, that's all). Piracetam doesn't work for everyone. There are several scientific articles explaining why Piracetam doesn't help everybody. It doesn't have anything to do with the adrenal function or co-supplementation of other stuff. Piracetam only helps those with compromised function of neural receptors. Normal healthy people don't benefit from it.

alexsdad
Posts: 134
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2011 1:31 pm

Re: Piracetam

Postby alexsdad » Thu May 15, 2014 11:24 pm

I did some research too and Piracetam seems to be pretty safe. I spoke with my son's neuro but he didn't want to prescribe it. He wasn't again the idea either. I guess he also agrees that it's pretty safe. He was kind of surprised to hear that people could buy it without prescription. Then I spoke with our DAN and ordered Piracetam from Cognitive Neutrition. ( http://www.cognitivenutrition.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=60) I learned that Keppra (Livetiracetam) is actually a derivative of Piracetam and both drugs were developed by the same company UCB. (Aha! That's why they have similar names!) I found it particularly interesting because my son responded very well to Keppra. He may respond well to Piracetam since they have very similar chemical structures. It will be interesting to see.

piinthesky
Posts: 88
Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2013 4:33 pm

Re: Piracetam

Postby piinthesky » Mon May 19, 2014 10:39 am

FO2- do you remember where you got yours?

FatherOf2
Posts: 1667
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:37 am

Re: Piracetam

Postby FatherOf2 » Mon May 19, 2014 5:37 pm

piinthesky wrote:FO2- do you remember where you got yours?

We got our first Piracetam that worked from Serious Nutrition Solutions, but they don't sell it anymore. Then I got Piracetam from Relentless Improvement (http://relentlessimprovement.com/wp-content/uploads/catalog/piracetam.htm). They are the only company that I know who provides 3rd-party certificate of analysis for all their products. So, I felt safe that I was buyng a "clean" Piracetam. I also got Nootropil (the original branded Pircetam made by UCB) from an on-line pharmacy north of USA (if I put the name of the country, "ca**da", it will crash this site for some reason).

kulkulkan
Posts: 2075
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:37 pm

Re: Piracetam

Postby kulkulkan » Fri May 15, 2015 12:41 am

We got piracetam (nootropil brand). I just tried 800mg on myself and wow, what a difference in mental clarity and the effect was almost immediate - this effect is similar to what I see morning after taking melatonin.

Below is a small double blind ASD study using piracetam vs placebo (plus resperidone) which showed efficacy over placebo.

http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Moh ... cc7e12.pdf

I hadn't tried it before as our son has the best memory in our household (I have the worst). Choline doesn't seem to help him either. I am going to try it for a few more days and will consider a short trial. The effect, if there is any, should be immediate (however the ASD trial took 10 weeks to reflect in statistical significant changes).

Alexsdad, did you try it?

FatherOf2
Posts: 1667
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:37 am

Re: Piracetam

Postby FatherOf2 » Fri May 15, 2015 9:15 am

kulkulkan wrote:We got piracetam (nootropil brand).I just tried 800mg on myself and wow, what a difference in mental clarity and the effect was almost immediate - this effect is similar to what I see morning after taking melatonin.

What a coincidence. I took 1200mg of Piracetam myself on Tuesday before an important meeting. I had absolutely no effect. I had a similar no-response in the past. But my son is visibly better on it, reciting whole books, but scripting a lot. I still can't figure out why Piracetam doesn't help every one.

autismnhusa
Posts: 247
Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:14 pm

Re: Piracetam

Postby autismnhusa » Sun May 17, 2015 11:32 am

Father of 2,
Is your son still taking tenex, galantamine? Anything else? My son tried tenex and quetiapine fumarate (the quetiapine fumarate worked for 1 day). Tenex did not work at all. My son is going to see neuro again. Any suggestion is welcome.

Richard

quote="FatherOf2"]
kulkulkan wrote:We got piracetam (nootropil brand).I just tried 800mg on myself and wow, what a difference in mental clarity and the effect was almost immediate - this effect is similar to what I see morning after taking melatonin.

What a coincidence. I took 1200mg of Piracetam myself on Tuesday before an important meeting. I had absolutely no effect. I had a similar no-response in the past. But my son is visibly better on it, reciting whole books, but scripting a lot. I still can't figure out why Piracetam doesn't help every one.[/quote]

FatherOf2
Posts: 1667
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:37 am

Re: Piracetam

Postby FatherOf2 » Sun May 17, 2015 12:08 pm

autismnhusa wrote:Father of 2,
Is your son still taking tenex, galantamine? Anything else? My son tried tenex and quetiapine fumarate (the quetiapine fumarate worked for 1 day). Tenex did not work at all. My son is going to see neuro again. Any suggestion is welcome.

We are taking Tenex, 0.5mg in the morning and 0.75mg in the evening. The effect is very very mild because my son still has mood swings on it. I tried to reduce the dose, but he started sleeping worse. So, I keep it for now until I find a better alternative.
We haven't been taking Galantamine since February. I wanted to see what HBOT did on its own. And the effect from HBOT is great. My son is finally playing with toys properly, like a 2-3 year old (he is 6). He draws pictures and puts boys that he knows from school into them. He finally learned how to swing on his own. I thought that he will never learn. Reading and writing has never been a problem, he is ahead in this area. Language and understanding continues being his major problems. He can talk simple sentences, but getting any info from him is impossible. Although he can finally say where he lives. Our next step is to see a local private neurologist specializing in autism and get an advice regarding treating abnormal EEG. Most likely we'll end up trying Lamictal this summer. That should reduce EEG spiking and improve the mood. Hopefully, we'll be able to stop Tenex. I may re-start Galantamine too, because it really helps him, but temporarily.

By the way, we re-started Leucovorin Calcium at 5mg and saw some improvements in the first week, but after about 2 weeks he started being very irritable and hitting his head. So, we stopped it, and he is OK now.

autismnhusa
Posts: 247
Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:14 pm

Re: Piracetam

Postby autismnhusa » Mon May 18, 2015 5:29 pm

Fatherof2.
Thank you for your quick reply. I really appreciate it. I'll update if we try something new.

Richard

FatherOf2 wrote:
autismnhusa wrote:Father of 2,
Is your son still taking tenex, galantamine? Anything else? My son tried tenex and quetiapine fumarate (the quetiapine fumarate worked for 1 day). Tenex did not work at all. My son is going to see neuro again. Any suggestion is welcome.

We are taking Tenex, 0.5mg in the morning and 0.75mg in the evening. The effect is very very mild because my son still has mood swings on it. I tried to reduce the dose, but he started sleeping worse. So, I keep it for now until I find a better alternative.
We haven't been taking Galantamine since February. I wanted to see what HBOT did on its own. And the effect from HBOT is great. My son is finally playing with toys properly, like a 2-3 year old (he is 6). He draws pictures and puts boys that he knows from school into them. He finally learned how to swing on his own. I thought that he will never learn. Reading and writing has never been a problem, he is ahead in this area. Language and understanding continues being his major problems. He can talk simple sentences, but getting any info from him is impossible. Although he can finally say where he lives. Our next step is to see a local private neurologist specializing in autism and get an advice regarding treating abnormal EEG. Most likely we'll end up trying Lamictal this summer. That should reduce EEG spiking and improve the mood. Hopefully, we'll be able to stop Tenex. I may re-start Galantamine too, because it really helps him, but temporarily.

By the way, we re-started Leucovorin Calcium at 5mg and saw some improvements in the first week, but after about 2 weeks he started being very irritable and hitting his head. So, we stopped it, and he is OK now.

autismnhusa
Posts: 247
Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:14 pm

Re: Piracetam

Postby autismnhusa » Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:46 pm

My son is on risperdal. He is going through some adjustment. He was put on the medication last Wednesday (2mg, 3 times a day). On the second day, he had jerky body postures and movement He was really slown down and walked like zombie. On the third day, I heard his heart pounding. He could feel something rushed in his head. He could point the location. If it were without the medicine, he could try to smash his head. He was extreamely tired and slept a lot. He ate very little until today. He still felt something rushed in the front lobe yesterday. When it's strong, he usually fell asleep. He had a huge nose bleeding this morning, a minor one in the evening. Good news: he did not feel any rush today and wanted to eat something. We also cut down the dosage based on his neuro recommendation.


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