I.V. Glutathione push

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srobqt
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I.V. Glutathione push

Postby srobqt » Thu May 09, 2013 2:46 pm

My son is 7 with high functioning autism. We've been doing biomed for approximately 5.5 years. He's GF/CF, receives daily B-12 shots, Transdermal Glutathione and many nutritional supplements. He has also completed almost 90 hard chamber hyperbaric dives and receives daily discrete trial. He is currently in a regular kindergarten class with an aide, speaks in sentences and doing well academically. His urine toxic metals and porphyrin test revealed significant levels of toxins. My DAN recommended I.V. Glutathione (push) every other week for a least 6 pushes. At that time we would assess how he was doing and any improvements that we saw. He said there is very little risk of side effects. We are excited but nervous about doing it. Has anyone had positive / negative experiences with this. I spoke to a woman who did this with her 5 yr. old son and she said he seemed more focused, attentive with a reduction in stimming.

Thanks so much,
Sheri

FatherOf2
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Re: I.V. Glutathione push

Postby FatherOf2 » Thu May 09, 2013 3:03 pm

I am curious: did the doctor explain the benefits of the IV glutathione vs transdermal that you already use?

georgiam
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Re: I.V. Glutathione push

Postby georgiam » Thu May 09, 2013 3:31 pm

So glad you posted this. our next intervention for dd is td glutathione, but have been wondering if its better to do iv since td likely does not cross the bbb. anyone?

kulkulkan
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Re: I.V. Glutathione push

Postby kulkulkan » Thu May 09, 2013 3:59 pm

My understanding is glutathione whether IV or TD does not cross BBB effectively and has half life that is in minutes. Once broken down into its precursor elements, such elements may be able to cross BBB in a limited way, so it might still be therapeutically useful to try.

srobqt
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Re: I.V. Glutathione push

Postby srobqt » Thu May 09, 2013 4:16 pm

Thanks for your replies ! I've been doing TD Glutathione with my son for about a year and haven't seen anything good or bad. My DAN said he's seem improvements in 85 % of kids treated with IV Glut. so I hope we do too. I'm always nervous to try anything new, but so far have not heard anything negative, (except that it doesn't work in all kids). I hope we're not giving him an IV for nothing, but have to try. He had significant improvement with daily B-12 and HBOT. We're also considering Kelatox EDTA suppositories, but not brave enough yet. Good luck everyone !

FatherOf2
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Re: I.V. Glutathione push

Postby FatherOf2 » Thu May 09, 2013 4:43 pm

I found some good reviews of oral Liposomal Glutathione (you can buy it on amazon). For example, http://glutathione.wellwise.org/, or http://www.evenbetternow.com/documents/Liposomal%20Glutathione-Zeevalk-20102.pdf. Somebody claimed that it is as effective as an IV form. If that is true, then it is much cheaper and easier (no poking into a vein) way to go.

kulkulkan
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Re: I.V. Glutathione push

Postby kulkulkan » Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:08 pm

Srobqt, are you still seeing good things with glutathione push? Anyone tried liposomal glutathione?

We reintroduced transdermal glutathione (Kirkman brand) but doing 3x more dosage then we had before. We have seen some very positive changes during same time (more engaged, verbal exchanges, etc.) but not sure if it is the glutathione (we did do an ALA/DMPS round this past weekend at the same time). The liposomal form looks interesting assuming it can achieve 90% absorption claimed (oral is usually less than 5% absorption, much like NAC).

FatherOf2
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Re: I.V. Glutathione push

Postby FatherOf2 » Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:00 pm

kulkulkan wrote:Srobqt, are you still seeing good things with glutathione push? Anyone tried liposomal glutathione?

We reintroduced transdermal glutathione (Kirkman brand) but doing 3x more dosage then we had before. We have seen some very positive changes during same time (more engaged, verbal exchanges, etc.) but not sure if it is the glutathione. The liposomal form looks interesting assuming it can achieve 90% absorption claimed (oral is usually less than 5% absorption, much like NAC).

The taste of liposomal glutathione is terrible, they say. I don't think you can give it to a child. TD GSH or lots of oral NAC seem to be the ways to go. Is the Kirkman product this one Reduced L-Glutathione Lotion 57 gm/2 oz $40.50 0226-002? How does it smell? We've been using TD glutathione from Lee Silsby with no positive or negative results.

kulkulkan
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Re: I.V. Glutathione push

Postby kulkulkan » Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:20 pm

Yes, I did read the same review on the taste (we had also tried the LivON Liposomal Vitamin C which was very hard to mix/dose; they have liposomal GSH which based on reviews appears to taste bad and if it is anything like the Liposomal Vitamin C, then it isn't going to work).

That is the Kirkman TD-GSH that we are trying again - it doesn't smell as much compared to TD-NAC and it is very easy to apply. At the dose that we are doing, I think the bottle will be done in couple of weeks. I would recommend trying at least a bottle but go with higher dosage (3x) as a trial. It is fairly expensive.

We couldn't dose PharmaNAC (which I thought tasted really good!) as our son doesn't like "fizzy" drinks. Need to get him used to fizzy drinks first.

FatherOf2
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Re: I.V. Glutathione push

Postby FatherOf2 » Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:25 pm

kulkulkan wrote:Yes, I did read the same review on the taste (we had also tried the LivON Liposomal Vitamin C which was very hard to mix/dose; they have liposomal GSH which based on reviews appears to taste bad and if it is anything like the Liposomal Vitamin C, then it isn't going to work).

That is the Kirkman TD-GSH that we are trying again - it doesn't smell as much compared to TD-NAC and it is very easy to apply. At the dose that we are doing, I think the bottle will be done in couple of weeks. I would recommend trying at least a bottle but go with higher dosage (3x) as a trial. It is fairly expensive.

We couldn't dose PharmaNAC (which I thought tasted really good!) as our son doesn't like "fizzy" drinks. Need to get him used to fizzy drinks first.

My son doesn't like fizzy drinks either. They say if you let it stand for 15-20minutes the fizziness should be gone (but also NAC will probably be more oxidized and less potent). I just have been reading about s-acetyl glutathione (SAG). They claim it has no taste, resists stomach acids, but then there is no research whether it really increases intracellular GSH levels.

http://www.nleducation.co.uk/resources/reviews/oral-glutathione-equivalent-to-iv-therapy/

Maxs dad
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Re: I.V. Glutathione push

Postby Maxs dad » Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:12 pm

We have done liposomal GSH. Tastes real bad but my son did well on it, enough for me to notice small changes. THEN we tried TD GSH at 250 mg. the cream was nice it does not smell at all and we saw more gains yet again. So THEN we tried nebulized GSH. Nebulized GSH was by far the best. After the first time he ran for 2 city blocks full speed. He was really wired! I knew within 10 minutes that This worked the best. So when I run out of the nebulized GSH I fall back on TD and liposomal GSH at the same time. My son does well on GSH! I would say that GSH supplements ranks up there with HBOT and B12, so a top 3 biomed treatment.

I would love to try IV GSH but can't find anyone to do it. Also the needle might be a bit traumatic for my son. Please do share your experience if you do decide to try the IV. I know 2 mothers that have done it with their boys and told me it was well worth their time. They traveled out of state for IV GSH.

kulkulkan
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Re: I.V. Glutathione push

Postby kulkulkan » Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:39 pm

Thanks. I think supplementing glutathione is better approach than NAC, even if it breaks down to precursor components only.

SAG looks interesting - especially the reduction in oxidative stress marker (it would be impossible to directly measure intracellular GSH in any study). Looks like it is available in capsule form, but wonder if opened whether SAG will make it past the stomach acids without the capsule.

FatherOf2
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Re: I.V. Glutathione push

Postby FatherOf2 » Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:47 pm

Maxs dad wrote:We have done liposomal GSH. Tastes real bad but my son did well on it, enough for me to notice small changes. THEN we tried TD GSH at 250 mg. the cream was nice it does not smell at all and we saw more gains yet again. So THEN we tried nebulized GSH. Nebulized GSH was by far the best. After the first time he ran for 2 city blocks full speed. He was really wired! I knew within 10 minutes that This worked the best. So when I run out of the nebulized GSH I fall back on TD and liposomal GSH at the same time. My son does well on GSH! I would say that GSH supplements ranks up there with HBOT and B12, so a top 3 biomed treatment.

I would love to try IV GSH but can't find anyone to do it. Also the needle might be a bit traumatic for my son. Please do share your experience if you do decide to try the IV. I know 2 mothers that have done it with their boys and told me it was well worth their time. They traveled out of state for IV GSH.

How does the nebulized GSH smell? And where do you get it?

I searched user reports on s-acetyl glutathione and found different opinions from no effect to great. But it seems that there are more positive opinions about the effectiveness of LivOn Lipospheric GSH. I wish it wasn't so horrible in taste. Perhaps nebulized is the way to go, or TD, which we are already doing.

Maxs dad
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Re: I.V. Glutathione push

Postby Maxs dad » Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:30 pm

We get the TD and nebulized GSH from hopewell pharmacy. They mix it up and ship it out with our B12 shots. I have to say that we saw immediate differences with all types of GSH.

The nebulized version doesn't have a strong smell. It just has a little bit of a sulfur smell but not that noticeable to me. The hardest part is getting my boy to inhale the solution. I had to show him by putting the face mask in my face and inhaling. And then the nebulizer makes a small buzzing noise because it pumps air. it was all new and i could tell he wasnt going to just jump in my lap and start putting his face in the little mask. i asked him to put the mask in front of his face and he refused. He refused so I had to put the mask to my face and inhale. I did it again and agin.... I bet I took about half of the first GSH vial and then he finally put it to his face and inhaled. He doesn't really like doing it but I think now he realizes it gives him energy and does something good to his body.

We had been doing liposomes GSH for 12 months now. The TD cream we started in February. And the nebulized version we started in July if that gives you any perspective on how long we have been benefitting from different types of GSH.

kulkulkan
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Re: I.V. Glutathione push

Postby kulkulkan » Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:33 am

Thanks. What was the brand name of the liposomal GSH did you try?

Maxs dad
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Re: I.V. Glutathione push

Postby Maxs dad » Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:30 pm

Lipoceutical GSH we have used for the past year. You get a little white bottle that contains 4 oz for 60 dollars. We bought off of amazon. We gave 1/4 tsp to start and to see if it was good or bad reaction once a day. Then after we saw good results went to 1/4 morning and night. Then eventually to 1/2 tsp. we would also take weekends off, don't know if you have to or not?

The taste is bad but I have gotten used to it and can tolerate it now, but it takes a while.... Link to what the bottle looks like below.

http://www.amazon.com/Lipoceutical-Lipo ... B004EKJU9E

kulkulkan
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Re: I.V. Glutathione push

Postby kulkulkan » Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:35 pm

Thanks. There is also life wave glutathione patch but reviews are mixed on that and some people reported side effects.

Going to stick to the transdermal form for now. Going to order the Acetyl form and LivOn liposome one to try though I suspect I will be finishing those.

Other strategies to increase GSH with published research are 1) supplement precursors (whey protein, glutamine, cysteine, NAC) 2) help promote GSH recycling / availability with antioxidants (vitamin c, e, d, selenium, melatonin, milk thistle, etc.) or 3) push methylation cycle (SAMe/methionine, MB12, folinic, etc.). We already do most of (2) and (3) but not as much (1) yet and looking to change that.

noelm
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Re: I.V. Glutathione push

Postby noelm » Fri Aug 30, 2013 2:39 pm

@kulkulkan,
Could you please explain your strategy? i.e. what supplements (with brands, if possible) and the dose do you use.

I personally use
1. L-glutamine (Optimum Nutrition) 1 tbsp 2X a day, waiting for NAC (doctor's best)
2. Oral Vit. C 500mg/day, Vit. D 1000 IU/day (comes with Nordic Naturals Ultimate Omega Fish oil), 400mg of alpha (Vitamin Shoppe) and 300mg of gamma (Jarrows) tocopherol / 2X aday, Super Se (Life Extension) Half capsule/day, 1mg melatonin/day
3. 1000mcg MB12 (Jarrows) oral tablet 1X/day, 400mg folinic acid (Source Naturals)/day

In your opinion, do I need to add/change anything in this routine?


I am curious, if anybody tried oral acetyl-glutathione that FatherOf2 mentioned? It is discussed quite a lot on CFS/ME forums. Allergy Research Group's product is supposed to be good (as per the posters there).


Thanks in advance
iHerb code BMV549
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biomed_dad
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Re: I.V. Glutathione push

Postby biomed_dad » Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:58 pm

I agree with kulkulkan, it seems like the IV glutathione would have little value given that enzymes in the blood would break down the glutathione into its component glycine, cysteine, and glutamate.

We just started liposomal glutathione today which I think holds the most promise in terms of delivering in-tact glutathione intracellularly. We make it at home using the same methods described online for liposomal vitamin C. The reason for doing it at home is not only cost, but also to ensure the ingredients can be controlled (for example, non-GMO sunflower lecithin instead of soy lecithin to provide to provide the lipids).

It actually doesn't taste that bad at all, I made a batch with a concentration of 200mg reduced glutathione in liposomal form per 1 oz of liquid. With a little stevia it is palatable. I gave our first dose of 1/2 oz (100mg reduced glutathione) and did see a spark in our son pretty quickly (in terms of energy level, happiness level, and ability to play an interactive game better).

Our DAN does IV glutathione which we are going to avoid, but was very supportive of us trying the liposomal glutathione. The recommended dose for IV was 200mg twice a day, going to start with half that amount with the liposomal glutathione this week and see how it goes, as I do believe the liposomal route can be much more potent.

Maxs dad
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Re: I.V. Glutathione push

Postby Maxs dad » Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:44 pm

From my experience here is the best to worst as far as GSH goes.


1. Nebulized
2. TD
3. Oral

I have tried all of these. i have heard IV is best but because I cannot find a DR to administer the IV i cannot put it as 1 since i have no personal experience. Oral is by far the least effective. You will hit a plateau in 2 months time with oral as my son did. We started TD GSH after oral and he made another big jump. Then we moved to Nebulized after TD and made yet another jump up forward. I saw gains as well as his ABA team, and they did notknow what supplements I give or when i give them.

But hey try it for yourself and see how it goes. I hope you see gains in the first two months with oral as I did. Good luck.


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