High dose ALA having good effect

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luis
Posts: 250
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:42 pm

Re: High dose ALA having good effect

Postby luis » Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:23 pm

5yw,

It was all doing well. But , coincidentally, yesterday my son started to have stomach ache. Probably due to the high dosages of very acidic supplements: ALA and Thiamine.
So, today, we started. 3 day break from everything. After this stop, we'll restart slowly, one supplement at a time.

So glad for your son !!! It seems like real improvement. I hope the progresses subsist !

Best,
Luis

FatherOf2
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Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:37 am

Re: High dose ALA having good effect

Postby FatherOf2 » Mon May 05, 2014 3:47 pm

Any updates on high-dose ALA? Are you concerned that taking a high-dose ALA twice a day instead of a small-dose ALA every 3 hours can cause mercury redistribution? Andy Cutler scared me with his theories from taking ALA or NAC in a more convenient way.

http://www.altmedrev.com/publications/7/6/456.pdf
ALA has been administered to humans in
doses up to 1,200 mg intravenously without toxicity,
and in oral daily doses of as much as 600
mg three times daily. The only side effects reported
are infrequent nausea and vomiting. No side effects
have been reported in oral administration of
up to 1,800 mg daily.41,48 Doses of 500-1,000 mg
have been well tolerated in placebo-controlled
studies.49 Extrapolation of pharmacokinetic and
toxicity data demonstrate safe human dosages
would not be exceeded with oral doses of several
grams per day.41


My only concern is yeast.

fiveyearswasted
Posts: 499
Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:08 pm

Re: High dose ALA having good effect

Postby fiveyearswasted » Thu May 08, 2014 7:20 pm

I am not too concerned about redistribution. We did do a round of DMSA chelation this past weekend and I think we will keep with doing a once every 1 to 2 month round. Keep in mind that we already did 2 years and now 51 rounds total of AC chelation, and it appears that we have been able to keep yeast away. Actually I believe for us, like others have also reported, that chelation helped a lot with the candida problem.

We are still on 2x 600mg per day and the last few weeks my son was not sleeping as well, less focused, and stimming was way up. Part of the problem is that he has been OCD'ing on Sonic the Hedgehog which I put on his ipad recently and regretting doing that now. The bigger problem I found was adding other supplements with the ALA. I thought the ALA was losing its effect, then I read an article that said ALA induces glutathione production through and *oxidative* effect. A few days ago I removed everything else except for Vit D which he loses at a rapid rate if not supplemented, and he is back to sleeping well again and stimming is lowered, focus seems better. I think the other anti-oxidants may have been interfering with oxidative-glutathione-stimulating effects of ALA. Vit C, Vit E, and B complex did not go well with the ALA.

One more thing that is apparent is that he is putting on weight fast now, a considerable amount being fat. He's always been skinny so this kinda makes him look more in line with all his classmates. I am not sure if there is an effect on hormones here, or if the acidity of the ALA is helping to digest and absorb food better.

I still haven't opened the bottle of the new Na-R-ALA so I can't compare that to the generic racemic ALA.
We have a check up later this month and we'll do blood work again to see how he is doing.
Also we need to check his lithium level again. They were rock bottom last time and we had been using some lithium orotate. If his levels have budged with the small doses of the lithium orotate supplement, we may need to consider the Rx'd lithium carbonate with is very high dosage compared to the supplement.
No scientific evidence that autism has a toxic or allergic basis. - Mr. Barrett

fiveyearswasted
Posts: 499
Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:08 pm

Re: High dose ALA having good effect

Postby fiveyearswasted » Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:02 pm

3 month update.


Things were going very good for quite a while but it seemed like the effects of the ALA were wearing off. Not any bad reactions, just not getting the good calming, good sleep, good verbal effects from before. We stopped the high dose ALA for about 2 weeks, then started again a few days before my son's next blood tests.

June blood tests:
Cut and paste from the initial post. New data in blue.
Ammonia cut in half. Previously it was 111. Normal scale is 30 to 86. This time it was down to 56. Up to 96. Might be due to not using ALA for those 2 weeks.
Copper is down. Previously it was 136. Scale is 68 to 128. This time it was 117. This time was 124, about the same as last time.
ASO is down. Last time 153. Scale limit is 239. This time it was 136. (Starting was 398 2 years ago.) Was 134.
IgE. Previously was 543. This last time was 346. Scale limit is 173 so still significantly high but this was a large drop in this short period of time. Two years ago it was 661. This time was 378, so just a little higher. We've also dropped GF/CF so he has been eating more of these foods.
Vit D was the same at 58. (We've been giving a lot of D3.) Up to 63. New high for us. He is getting 10,000 to 20,000iu per day though, and should be going up faster.
AST was slightly lower. Previously 37 was down to 30. Range < 35. Down to 27.
ALT was slightly lower. Previously 31 was down to 20. Range <35 (Nice to know that ALA seems to be helping liver function a bit.) Down to 16. Seems the ALA is really helping the liver.
Lithium. This was our first time testing this marker and it was rock bottom low. 0.01 on a scale of 0.60 to 1.20. We do take lithium orotate 20mg once every 1 to 2 weeks so I was surprised to see it this low. Lithium is unchanged at 0.01 even though we have been giving 20mg to 40mg / day. We are going to have to use Rx lithium to get his levels up.
Iron was up to 69. Normal range is 54 - 200. This was a nice find as ALA is known to chelate iron "in vitro". My son before biomed intervention was low in iron (although improved after DMSA chelation) and I was worried that daily ALA could make him deficient again. Nice to see that this is not the case, and iron is not being chelated "in vivo".
Thyroid, kidney, and immune function was all okay.

Other things to note. For a while we switched to stabilized Na-R-ALA, 220mg 2x per day. This did not work as well as the regular racemic ALA at 600mg 2x per day.
Recently we also added some things that helped calm him before (niacin hexanicotinate 500mg morning / regular niacin 500mg at night, L-5-MTHF 15mg 2x a day, and selenium 200mcg).

I found this article very interesting on Niacin and ALA:
http://www.bioportfolio.com/resources/p ... py-In.html
Summary of "Is it time to reassess alpha lipoic acid and niacinamide therapy in schizophrenia?"
As sulfur containing thiols, alpha lipoic acid (ALA) and its reduced form dihydrolipoic acid (DHLA) are powerful antioxidants and free radical scavengers capable of performing many of the same functions as glutathione (GSH). ALA supplementation may help protect mitochondria from oxidative stress, a possible mechanism contributing to certain forms of brain diseases called schizophrenia. Shortly before the advent of antipsychotic medications, two small studies found ALA relieved psychiatric symptoms in schizophrenia. More recently, animal studies have shown ALA augmentation improves mitochondrial function. At pharmaceutical levels, niacinamide helps preserve mitochondrial membrane integrity and acts as an antioxidant. ALA is a precursor for lipoamide, an essential mitochondrial coenzyme and niacinamide is a component of niacinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD). NADH, the reduced form of NAD, is involved in the reduction of ALA to DHLA within the mitochondria. This is relevant to contemporary research because DHLA increases GSH and low GSH levels contribute to mitochondrial dysfunction and oxidative stress which have been implicated in the pathophysiology of schizophrenia.


So it seems that it is possible that niacin stores were used up by high doses of ALA and supplementing more nicain may help keep the effects of high dose ALA longer. Also niacin appears to facilitate the conversion of ALA to a stronger form, DHLA, and to protect mitochondria as well. Also with increased production of GSH, more selenium will be needed.

So at the moment my son is back to being calmer, more focused, sleeping better, & talking better. This might be due to the 2 week break we took, or it might be due to the combo of ALA + Niacin. This just might be a thing where he needs to take a break every so often. In any event, we are not seeing any behavioral detriments to this high dose ALA and his blood work not showing any problems either.
No scientific evidence that autism has a toxic or allergic basis. - Mr. Barrett

FatherOf2
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Re: High dose ALA having good effect

Postby FatherOf2 » Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:05 pm

So niacin and selenium help to calm? Do you give ALA every day or just on weekends?

fiveyearswasted
Posts: 499
Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:08 pm

Re: High dose ALA having good effect

Postby fiveyearswasted » Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:33 am

We give ALA every day. Sometimes we skip weekends, but weekdays is every day.

Selenium is not calming but is there to help any uptick in glutathione production.

Niacin is very well documented for use with mood disorders, schizophrenia, bipolar, etc. It is calming in sufficiently high doses. What I didn't know until recently was that it protects mitochondria and helps in the conversion of ALA to DHLA.
No scientific evidence that autism has a toxic or allergic basis. - Mr. Barrett

luis
Posts: 250
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:42 pm

Re: High dose ALA having good effect

Postby luis » Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:31 am

fiveyearswasted wrote:We give ALA every day. Sometimes we skip weekends, but weekdays is every day.

Selenium is not calming but is there to help any uptick in glutathione production.

Niacin is very well documented for use with mood disorders, schizophrenia, bipolar, etc. It is calming in sufficiently high doses. What I didn't know until recently was that it protects mitochondria and helps in the conversion of ALA to DHLA.


But (there is always a "but" ! :( ) niacin depletes (uses) methyl groups. I wish I was a magician to know the exact and proper dosages of each supplement.

AIM
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed May 14, 2014 4:35 pm

Re: High dose ALA having good effect

Postby AIM » Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:31 pm

Can high dose ALA not cause mercury redistribution to the brain.
Mr. AC has several posts on this topic. Check onibasu.com

fiveyearswasted
Posts: 499
Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:08 pm

Re: High dose ALA having good effect

Postby fiveyearswasted » Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:27 pm

AIM wrote:Can high dose ALA not cause mercury redistribution to the brain.
Mr. AC has several posts on this topic. Check onibasu.com


We did AC chelation for 2 years. We are now at 51 rounds and will continue to knock out a DMSA round every 1 to 3 months. I think doing DMSA chelation has prepared us for doing high dose ALA which is getting these great results now.
No scientific evidence that autism has a toxic or allergic basis. - Mr. Barrett

FatherOf2
Posts: 1592
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:37 am

Re: High dose ALA having good effect

Postby FatherOf2 » Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:45 pm

I bet 99% of kids won't have any mercury redistribution from large ala doses 2x day without prior chelation. AC created his method for adults with mercury fillings.

fiveyearswasted
Posts: 499
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Re: High dose ALA having good effect

Postby fiveyearswasted » Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:07 pm

FatherOf2 wrote:I bet 99% of kids won't have any mercury redistribution from large ala doses 2x day without prior chelation. AC created his method for adults with mercury fillings.


For a large number of these kids, I would bet that you are right, though there are probably a fair number of exceptions.

Just to be on the safe side, doing several rounds of DMSA chelation followed by a provoked Urine Metals test is the best way to go IMHO though it may not be the easiest (without determination or a good DAN) and not the cheapest. If after several rounds, mercury is pouring out on a provoked test, then it would be good to stay on AC (DMSA) chelation for a while until the mercury numbers come down.

Another thing to consider is that ALA will cause the excretion of other metals as well - sorta what you hope for when increasing GSH. ALA is known to increase the excretion of lead. The Adam's study showed the ASD kids were dumping lead like crazy on DMSA chelation....and DMSA is FDA approved for lead toxicity, and it actually binds to lead stronger than it does mercury (which is one of the take aways from the Adam's study IMHO). I see DMSA as an extremely important tool and I don't know if we would have beat the yeast, lowered IgE food allergy levels, lowered ASO and D-Nase levels, and improved iron retention without the rounds of AC chelation.

Now, according to last years provoked Urine Metals test, our biggest metal problem by far is cadmium. Unfortunately, not only does cadmium resides inside the cells where DMSA cannot reach, DMSA does not bind well with cadmium. DMPS does bind better with cadmium but we still need an intracellular helper like ALA or GSH........and I seem to have lost my source for DMPS. Might have to use chlorella instead of DMPS.

I think a good sign if a child will do well with high dose ALA is by judging how he or she does "on round" with DMSA/ALA chelation. My son always seemed to be better "on round" than off and I know this is the exact opposite for a lot of kids. A few days of high dose ALA and the behavioral improvements were very clear. If a child is uncomfortable or irritated on round, then upping the dose and going every day will probably be worse.
No scientific evidence that autism has a toxic or allergic basis. - Mr. Barrett

JeniB
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Re: High dose ALA having good effect

Postby JeniB » Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:17 am

l-methione helps get rid of cadmium.
Jen
(mom of 3)

iherb referral code: HOF516
save $5 on first purchase

fiveyearswasted
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Re: High dose ALA having good effect

Postby fiveyearswasted » Thu Jun 12, 2014 7:41 pm

JeniB wrote:l-methione helps get rid of cadmium.


JeniB, do you have a link to more information on that?

I saw pubmed articles that showed that high doses of B1, Vit C, and chlorella were effective at lowering cadmium.

Methionine makes sense as it will convert to GSH intracellularly. The problem is that my son like most ASD kids is very low in methionine and cysteine. We are losing it somewhere. Actually methionine is a favorite food of desulfovibrio and other sulfur-reducers. They turn it into dihydrogen sulfide.
No scientific evidence that autism has a toxic or allergic basis. - Mr. Barrett

JeniB
Posts: 5021
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:10 pm

Re: High dose ALA having good effect

Postby JeniB » Fri Jun 13, 2014 5:28 am

small article here
http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... id_in_mice

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methionine

there's a well known chelation doctor here that mentions using L-methionine to get out cadmium. We also have issues with too much sulfury supplements. I do use some during rounds though. I think you might find the book I just read pretty interesting…it's "Why Stomach Acid Is Good For You?" I wonder how many of our kids are low in stomach acid due to an injured stomach layer (damaged parietal cells that can't make HCL or intrinsic factor anymore) and would benefit from the information in this book? we were globally low on amino acids and I feel it's due to our h. pylori infection he has/had. The inability to also secrete pepsin would impair amino acid breakdown and feed these gut bugs too. I think the gut bugs set up camp because digestion goes wrong for our kids. Not sure of the cause, but this book made a lot of practical sense in helping repair faulty digestion, especially in the stomach.
Jen
(mom of 3)

iherb referral code: HOF516
save $5 on first purchase

starmum
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Re: High dose ALA having good effect

Postby starmum » Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:56 pm

Any update i am v.interested in doing high dose ala


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