How to reduce stimming

Discuss autism diets and biomedical treatments of autism.

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Nikkie111
Posts: 307
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2015 6:26 am

Re: How to reduce stimming

Postby Nikkie111 » Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:16 am

FatherOf2 wrote:
Nikkie111 wrote:Oh dear me Fo2 sorry to hear that! Is he any better now?
Just pls bear in mind luteolin, and Mct are high salycilates so could be that? Is his diet low phenol anyway?
You migh need to look into viruses Fo2- not sure what you've done so far on this but you might need to bring the load down - the brain inflammation they cause is just mad!
Hope your little one picks up soon !

Thanks, Nikkie. I tend to get used to improvements and start experimenting with new stuff just to understand how lucky I was to have what I had before the experimentation. We returned to our core supp,emts, and he is getting better. I should have introduced XCT oil slowly instead of going straight to one tablespoon. XCT oil turned out to be quite a powerful stuff. We saw irritability from MCT oil in the past, but it would take 1-2 weeks to get it to the unbareable level. XCT oil gave it in one day.

We have tested blood for viruses and it was negative. We could assume that he has some viruses and start him on Valtrex or Famciclovir. I took Valtrex in the past and then switched to Famciclovir for my cold sores. Every time I take either one, they cause a headache. That proves to me that they are pro-inflammatory, but all studies I saw claim that they are not. Then what is the cause of the headaches? These drugs don't even kill viruses. They just stop them from multiplying. So, in a dormant (non-multiplying) viral infection, they are pretty useless. IMO. Then there are herbal alternatives and immune boosters like Echinacea, Goldenseal, Cats Claw, Ginseng, etc. I tried Goldenseal and saw improvements in my son every time I gave it to him. But you can't take it for more than 10 days. Goldenseal is not really an immune booster, but rather a weak antifungal (thanks to Berberine) and anti-inflammatory. That's why I felt comfortable giving it to my son. I am still scared of Echinacea, Cats Claw and Ginseng, and anything that boosts or weakens immune system. I need to study them more to feel comfortable.

Yes we do experiment don't we? :lol: :lol: glad your boy is better!

Valtrex is 100% anti inflammatory, that's the reason some see improvement without rash. My doc told me as well but I've also seen studied that confirmed that it shifts TH1 to TH2. Also it's less toxic than other med Antivirals including Famciclovir

Testing is useless Fo2, there are so many viruses that could be occupying our cells, what do we test for??!
You can do a trial of 50 days and see how it goes. That's exactly how much we did and then moved to herbs. But bear in mind it needs to be in the blood the whole day in order to suppress the virus otherwise it's useless so at least 3 times a day

I absolutely understand about herbs , I won't try to convince you again and yes you would need to get them from a very reputable source and go extremely slowly - we had unbelievable progress with Buhner protocol (bless CdB!) to the point that we start getting good reports from school - his teacher said "it's probably a phase he was going through possibly not autism!!" , so I pray to God that he stays like this , but we are full on herbs and nothing else!! Don't be too scared also about supplements that boost the immune you'd just need to do it in a controlled manner and very very slowly. Maybe Google pine cone extract, earth dragon and BRm4 - all of which eventually increase natural killer cells which will fight yeast clostridia klebsiella etc . We just started these this week again very slowly!!

Or maybe have a little experiment at valtrex definitely worth trying even for a bit ... But please bear in mind his natural killer cells might decrease hence there is always a need for antifungal while on valtrex (and that's why we stopped)
Last edited by Nikkie111 on Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

Nikkie111
Posts: 307
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2015 6:26 am

Re: How to reduce stimming

Postby Nikkie111 » Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:45 am

Fo2 wanted to say also please remember viruses are NASTY!!!! They can really fool the immune to think that the wrong helper cells should be triggered. If our kids are unlucky to genetically not being able to process viruses very well they are pretty much screwed! Virus:
- takes over immune hence they can't even response to tiniest of bacteria
- causes massive brain inflammation (hello glutamate!!)
- causes CNS issues
- even causes constipation for God's sake!!

So we could be missing the boat here is we think viruses are not to be blamed!!

Aaron083
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:55 am

Re: How to reduce stimming

Postby Aaron083 » Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:35 am

When a person with autism engages in self-stimulatory behaviors such as rocking, pacing, aligning or spinning objects, or hand flapping, people around him may be confused, offended, or even frightened.Reducing self-stimulatory behaviors can improve the quality of life for many individuals with autism and other special needs.

FatherOf2
Posts: 1587
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:37 am

Re: How to reduce stimming

Postby FatherOf2 » Wed Feb 01, 2017 10:37 am

Nikkie, can you list things you use to increase Th1 dominance. Here is what I found on internet.

Factors that boost Th1 (cell-mediated immunity against intracellular pathogens like viruses, autoimmunity, inflammation):
Chinese Skullcap (most powerful in this category)
Ginseng
Pine Cone Extract (turns on IL-12 and shuts down IL-10, PineExtra 10 drops in am)
Grape Seed Extract (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC119947/)
Echinacea
Goldenseal (increases IFN-gamma Th1 and reduces IL-4 Th2, possible anti-allergy properties)
Lemon Balm
Garlic (promotes IL-2, NK, TNF-alpha and IFN-gamma)
Ginger (reduces IL-4, IL-5, IL-10, and IL-13, and promotes Th1 cytokine IFN-γ production, antiallergic, anti-inflammatory)
Cordyceps
Neem (promotes IFN-gamma, inhibits candida albicans https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2935742/)
Noni
Ashwagandha
Spirulina
Gingko Biloba (reduces cortisol production that suppresses Th1 cytokines)
Broccoli sprouts
Astragalus
Licorice (glycyrrhizin)
Chlorella (increases IFN-gamma and IL-12)
Cocoa (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18925611)
Lion's Mane mushroom, Beta-glucan mushroom, Maitake mushroom, Reishi mashroom
Colostrum
L. Acidophilus, L. Casei (increases IFN-gamma, IL2,12, reduces IL-4,5,6,10, fights candida), L. Plantarum (increases IFN-gamma and IL-12), B. Longum
Vitamin E (increases IL-2 and IFN-gamma and reduces IL-4 and IL-6)
Zinc
NAC/Glutathione
Glutamine
DHEA (antiglucocorticoid effect, increases IL-2 and IFN-gamma and reduces IL-6 and IL-10)
Resveratrol (in low doses 4mg/kg https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12370094)
Nicotine (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18248893)
Low Dose Naltrexone
Vaccines
Acetaminophen (increases TNF-alpha and reduces Glutathione, bad advice from pediatricians to give Tylenol after vaccination)
Drugs: Kutapressin, Isoprinosine, Heparin

Anti-inflammatory herbs/supplements without specific Th1/Th2 effect:
Fish oil (reduces TNF-alpha, IFN-gamma, IL-6, and increases IL-4 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18680632)
Quercetin, Luteolin (reduce TNF-alpha, IFN-gamma, and IL-6 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4926454/)
Bacopa (aka Brahmi, reduces TNF-α, IL-6 and NO, but increases IL-10)

Factors that boost Th2 (antibody-mediated immunity, allergies, parasites):
Vitamin A
Vitamin D3
Co-Q10 (reduces TNF and increases IL-10)
Processed, heated vegetable oils high in trans-fatty acids
Linoleic acid (safflower, soy, canola, corn and sunflower oils)
Evening Primrose oil (reduces IFN-gamma Th1 and increases IL-4 Th2)
MCT oil (Increases TSLP, IL-25, and IL-33)
Curcumin (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16867261)
Resveratrol (in high doses 20mg/kg http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0015099)
Pycnagenol (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4198966/)
Cat's Claw (reduces TNF-alpha and increases IL-4/5, contains tannins which, in large amounts, may cause upset stomach or even kidney damage)
Boswellia (Frankincense)
Caffeine
Green Tea extract
Lycopene (found in tomatos)
Glucose (white sugar)
Papain/Papaya (used as a model substance to increase Th2 inflammation)
BPA
Alcohol, asbestos, lead, mercury and other heavy metals, pesticides, mold, air and water pollutants
Cortisol (in high doses), progesterone, prednisone
Candida albicans, E coli and many other pathogens
Continuous stress
Melatonin (conflicting research suggests that high levels induce Th2 cytokines while very small amounts induce Th1 cytokines)
Streptococcus thermophilis (found in yogurt, increases IL-6)
l. Bulgaris and B. Bifidum (increase IL-6)
Low body temperature
Chronic insomnia
Heavy exercise (reduces Glutathione)
Ibuprofen (reduces TNF-alpha)
Calcium, chromium, manganese

Elevated Th1 cytokines (IL-2,12, IFN-gamma, TNF-alpha) are seen in
- Parkinson’s disease
- Alzheimer’s disease
- Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis
- Multiple sclerosis
- Crohn's
- Rheumatoid arthritis
- Type I diabetes
- Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis
- Celiac's (intolerance to gluten)
- Typically thin people

Elevated Th2 cytokines (IL-4,5,6,10,13) are seen in
- Allergies
- Asthma
- Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
- Colitis
- Autism

'T-cell-mediated regulation of neuroinflammation involved in neurodegenerative diseases':
In this review, we focus on the analysis of the interplay of the different sub-populations of CD4+ T-cells infiltrating the CNS and how they participate in regulating the outcome of neuroinflammation and neurodegeneration in the context of Parkinson’s disease, Alzheimer’s disease, amyotrophic lateral sclerosis and multiple sclerosis. In this regard, encephalitogenic inflammatory CD4+ T-cells, such as Th1, Th17, GM-CSF-producer CD4+ T-cells and γδT-cells, strongly contribute to chronic neuroinflammation, thus perpetuating neurodegenerative processes. In contrast, encephalitogenic or meningeal Tregs and Th2 cells decrease inflammatory functions in microglial cells and promote a neurosupportive microenvironment.
Last edited by FatherOf2 on Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:27 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Nikkie111
Posts: 307
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2015 6:26 am

Re: How to reduce stimming

Postby Nikkie111 » Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:11 am

WOW!!! What a list!!

this is what we are doing:
TH1 - astragalus, eleuthero, rhodiola, reishi and maitake mushrooms. Maitake is FANTASTIC!! there are loads of clinical reviews on their effect on tumors, but you'd need to get a really good and potent make. The one we got was a tiny bottle of around $100 here in UK, im sre you can get it cheaper there!

TH2 - knotweed, Chinese skullcap - I still give TH2 supplements as we need the balance. if you create a proinflammatory state with TH1, their body won't cool it down by itself. I also use bit of cordyceps and plant sterols (moducare) for balancing TH1/TH2

we also target an increase on NK Cells. It's part of the innate immune it's extremely important it works properly. We actually did a blood test to check his NK cells, and out of 3 NK cells markers, he was low on all 3 of them. Pretty sad! How is he able to fight viruses? Also his neutrophils are low and again this is part of the innate immunity. So for us NK cells: maitake mushrooms, pine cone extract, Earth Dragon and BRM4. We just started now the last 3.

Science hasn't confirmed the exact relationship between TH1/TH2 and NK cells, there are many scenarios in which adaptive immune calls the innate one and the other way around but some are still mystery

That's why much of what we are doing is an experiment, and going slowly is the key:-)

Finally please bear in mind that some of the viruses absolutely kill parts of the immune - EBV mutates the B cells!! Hence we are using antivirals in parallel!

So balance is the key :-)

Edit: wanted to add that herbs need slow approach and quite a lot of study with them. My boy got last week a full blown body rash with lomatium which is an extremely strong antiviral. It lasted 3 days, and suddenly it was gone. Funny enough he's been doing brilliantly, especially 'intellectually'! So it needs a very slow and careful consideration on how to implement this - but I do wish I did it earlier :-(

FatherOf2
Posts: 1587
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:37 am

Re: How to reduce stimming

Postby FatherOf2 » Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:04 pm

I am torn between Th1 and Th2 boosters because I know how well corticosteroids (Th2 boosters) help autistic children and how bad vaccines (Th1 boosters) are. I am still scared to try some heavy Th1 boosters. So, I will need to downselect from that long list of Th1 boosters. My criteria will be:
1. Boost natural killer (NK) cells to fight viral infections and tumors (NK cells are activated by IL-2, IL-12 and other cytokines), which is what I will define as 'Th1 boost'. On the other hand, I will require these NK/Th1 boosters to be anti-inflammatory in the sense that they suppress pro-inflammatory cytokines TNF-alpha and IL-6.
2. Don't reduce seizure threshold and preferably stabilize EEG.
3. Don't increase glutamate and preferably increase GABA.
4. Help to reduce schizophrenia symptoms, which means they don't mess with Dopamine receptors, or neutral
5. Encourage blood circulation or improve cognition in other ways.
6. Help to reduce behaviors like irritability and SIB. For my son, who has MAO-A homozygous mutation, it means that the 'Th1 booster' should not inhibit MAO-A and preferably not inhibit COMT.
7. Non-toxic to liver (doesn't elevate liver enzymes and preferably reduces them) or kidney


Things that passed all of my 7 requirements:

Cordyceps sinensis mushroom
1. Boosts NK cell activity, inhibits IL-1β, IL-6, IL-8, IL-10, TNF-α, NO, and prostaglandin E2 (PGE2) in vitro and in vivo, increases IL-2.
2. can cause convulsions at very high doses
3. Adenosine from Cordyceps protects against glutamate toxicity
4. Increases dopamine
5. Known as nootropic
6. Stabilizes blood sugar levels, so theoretically it should reduce mood swings. However increased irritability and restlessness are some of the reported side effects.
7. Safe (LD50 = 21g/kg), can be eaten as food, protects liver by reducing its enzymes (ALT and AST). However, there were reported cases of lead poisoning from Cordyceps.

Lion's Mane mushroom/Hericium erinaceus
1. Enhances NK cell function, reduces IL-1β, IL-6, and TNF-alpha, downregulates iNOS, regenerates nerves by stimulating NGF
2. effect on seizures is not reported
3. effect on glutamate is not reported but Lion's Mane is considered neuroprotective
4. Used in combination with antipsychotics to restore cognitive function in schizophrenia patients (these drugs reduce NGF). However, a conflicting view on the role of NGF in schizophrenia exists, according to which "the increase in BDNF and particularly NGF may have an important role in causing schizophrenia. And possibly drugs clozapine and risperidone help to treat the disease by reducing the concentration of Neurotrophins"(http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/sji.12158/pdf).
5. Increases cognitive function by stimulating NGF, improves focus and attentiveness to one’s surroundings, and thus, should increase learning and motivation, while promoting voluntary interactions with others. Lion’s Mane is the only mushroom to date that was found to have any stimulatory effect on the nerve growth factor (NGF), which makes it very useful to treat brain injuries.
6. positive effect on mood
7. Low toxicity, can be eaten as food, may elevate liver enzymes

Broccoli sprouts/Sulforaphane
1. Significantly enhances NK cell activity, IL-2 and IFN-gamma production in both normal as well as tumor-bearing animals, activates Nrf2, inhibits TNF-α, IL-1β, IL-6, and IL-8. Thanks to Nrf2 activation, Sulforaphane, when administered following traumatic brain injury (TBI), has been demonstrated to attenuate blood-brain barrier permeability, reduce cerebral edema, and restore cognitive function. Sulforaphane and broccoli sprouts are the most promising in preventing and killing cancer out of all of studied natural substances.
2. Theoretically, cellular activation by sulforaphane might exacerbate seizures in patients with known seizure disorders. A trial of sulforaphane in young autistic adult males, a seizure occurred in each of 2 participants: one during treatment (in a participant with a previously undisclosed seizure), the other 3 weeks after discontinuing sulforaphane. However, Sulforaphane is a strong HDAC inhibitor, which is supposed to make it a good mood stabilzer and anti-epileptic just like Valproic Acid.
3. protects against glutamate-mediated excitotoxicity
4. improves cognitive function in patients with schizophrenia. Currently two clinical trials are under way to investigate Sulforaphane as a treatment of schizophrenia.
5. Improves cognition thanks to activiation of Nrf2 and inhibition of HDAC (HDAC inhibitors are currently studied for Alzheimer's
6. Improves mood
7. Low toxicity, may slightly increase liver enzymes

Chinese Thorowax Root/Bupleurum chinense
1. prevents IL-1, IL-6, TNF, IL-8 release and prostaglandin E2 synthesis, exhibits anticancer effects via autophagy induction
2. key herb of traditional chinese medicine for seizures
3. prevents higher glutamate and GABA expressions and contains them within normal range
4. blocks D2 dopamine receptors similarly to atypical antipsychotics Risperidone, Aripiprazole, etc. One of the ingredients of TCM for Scizophrenia.
5. inhibits AChE and can potentially imrve memory and cognition. One study compared TCM containing Bupleurum against Ritalin on chidlren with "brain dysfunction". The TCM group showed 86% effective rate, whereas the Ritalin group showed 90% effective rate. But the TCM group had less side effects and had their EEG normalized or improved. Other herbs in the TCM formula were Chinese Skullcap, Astragalus, Codonopsis pilosula (poor man's ginseng), Ligustrum lucidum, Lophatherum gracile, and thread of ivory.
6. calming
7. Low toxicity (LD50 = 1.2g/kg), one of the key herbs in detoxing and healing liver

Ashwagandha/Withania somnifera
1. Boosts NK, kills leukemia cells and is also anti-inflammatory (reduces IL-6 and TNF-α, activates Nrf2). One of the 4 herbs recommended for eosinophilia (the other 3 are Albezzia lebbock, Neem, and Curcumin)
2. Binds to GABA receptors (GABAergic), reduces seizures, stabilizes EEG
3. Protects against glutamate toxicity (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3351387/)
4. One of the herbs recommended for schizophrenia. However, at least one study showed that Ashwagandha increases dopamine.
5. Several studies showed positive effect on cognition by increasing acetylcholine receptors.
6. as adaptogen relieves stress, depression and anxiety, also attenuates the inhibition of MAO enzymes, which may serve a beneficial role in preventing excessive MAO inhibition from other supplements, decreases testosterone
7. Low toxicity (LD50 = 7.7g/kg), heals liver by reducing liver enzymes AST and ALT. To reduce heavy metal pollutants in Ashwagandha, a root extract such as KSM-66 is preferred. Take before bed as it promotes sleep.

Bacopa Monnieri, aka Brahmi (non-specific towards Th1/Th2)
1. significantly inhibits LPS-activated TNF-α and IL-6, not clear effect on NK
2. Reduces seizures, but only in large doses
3. Inhibits glutamate dehydrogenase
4. regulates dopamine, one of the herbs recommended for schizophrenia. In a study of Bacopa for ADHD, Bacopa reduced learning problems, impulsivity, and psychiatric problems symptom scores for 78%, 67%, and 52% of children, respectively.
5. Increases cerebral blood flow, known nootrpic, reduces beta amyloid build up in Alzheimer's, one of the herbs recommended for ADHD. The efficacy of Bacopa in ADHD has been attributed to its neuroprotective and antioxidant effects, as well as regulation of dopamine, and inhibition of cholinesterase. Improves various parameters of cognition such as alertness, verbal learning, memory acquisition and recall, reaction times and depression/anxiety.
6. One study showed reduced irritability and insomnia at 300mg/2xday, reduces cortisol
7. Low toxicity (LD50 = 2.2g/kg), protects liver against toxins such as Tylenol, Morphine etc. However, it inhibits cytochrome P450 enzyme (a primary mechanism of detoxification), which can results in herb-drug interactions that can lead to liver injury. Another concern is that Bacopa monnieri is a known hyperaccumulator of Cadmium, Chromium, Lead and Mercury. So, you must request a 3rd-party Certificate of Analysis.

Honokiol/highly active polyphenol compound purified from the bark of Magnolia officinalis
1. inhibits IL-1β, TNF-α, IL-6, IL-8, MCP1 and GM-CSF, bypasses healthy cells and chokes off tumor cells, denying them the nutrients they need to survive. As effective anti-tumoral agent as common chemotherapeutic drug Adriamycin.
2. honokiol significantly increases NMDA-induced seizure thresholds by blocking NMDA-induced Ca(2+) influx
3. inhibits evoked glutamate release from glutamatergic nerve terminals of cerebral cortex, honokiol action was compared to that of Memantine. Honokiol is a positive allosteric modulator of both synaptic and extra-synaptic GABA-A receptors, which means it reduces the amount of GABA required to activate the receptor. It promotes NREM sleep.
4. can modestly inhibit dopamine transporter activity and reduce binding to dopamine (D5) and serotonin (5HT6) receptors, no influence on the other dopamine receptors (D1, D2S, D3, D4.4)
5. neuroprotective and cognition-enhancing, enhances acetycholine release thereby supporting memory
6. anti-anxiety action by activating GABA receptors, but honokiol was less likely than the diazepam to induce dependence, amnesia or depression
7. protects liver. However, Magnolia bark contains trace amounts of tubocurarine, which is an alkaloid that is commonly used as a muscle relaxant. The tubocurarine and related substances in magnolia bark may cause respiratory paralysis if it gets into blood stream. Taken orally it is very safe. LD50 oral dose for mice could not be established (more than 60g/kg). Still, to be on the safe side, it is best to buy Honokiol in an isolated form such as HonoPure (98% Honokiol)

Pycnogenol (bark extract from French Maritime pine tree)
1. significantly reduces inducible nitric oxide synthase (iNOS), which is involved in immune response, TNF-α, IL-6, IL-1β, ICAM-1 and PLIN2, increases the activity of natural killer cell
2. some users report that Pycnogenol reduced or eliminated their seizures in a stack with other anti-oxidants, but there is no published scientific evidence that Pycnogenol alone is doing anything for seizures
3. protects against glutamate induced toxicity
4. reduces dopamine by 11%
5. helps to restore cognition after TBI, was studied for ADHD and is one of the herbs recommended for that. Pycnogenol's therapeutic benefits are attributed to an increase in friendly endothelial nitric oxide (eNOS), which modulates dopamine and norepinephrine release and intake. An ancillary benefit of Pycnogenol is improvement in cerebral blood flow to regions of the brain implicated in ADHD.
6. may have a weak depressive effect possibly due to reduction in dopamine. In ADHD studies, Pycnagenol reduced excretion of catecholamines (DA, A, NA), which are typically higher in ADHD children, and increased GSH/GSSG ratio. Fatigue and irritability are possible side effects.
7. In a rat model of fatty liver (induced by a methione-choline deficient diet), 10mg/kg bodyweight Pycnogenol over a period of 5 weeks abolished the increase in serum triglycerides while attenuating the increase in liver fat and the expected increase of ALT, indicative of liver damage. After histological examination of the liver, the increase in cirrhosis and fibrosis seen in control was significantly reduced with pycnogenol. Protective effects have also been noted with rats who were experimentally diabetic, thought to be secondary to anti-oxidative effects. One study in men with erectile dysfunction noted a lowering of liver enzymes AST and y-GTP, magnitude not disclosed.

Resveratrol (Th1 booster, or perhaps non-specific)
1. Doesn't increase NK count, but activates them, reduces IL-6 and TNF-α and increases anti-inflammatory IL-10, activates Nrf2
2. Anti-convulsant and also has synergic effect with antiepileptic drugs
3. Resveratrol increases glutamate uptake (good thing), glutathione content
4. Doesn't improve symptoms of schizophrenia, but doesn't harm either
5. Doesn't improve cognition, but it acts as agonist of estrogen receptors, boosts friendly nitric oxide (eNOS), which should increase blood circulation
6. Increases S100B secretion, which is supposed to improve behaviors (S100B is the key ingredient of Russian behavioral drug Tenoten). However, Resveratrol is also a weak inhibitor of MAO-A and MAO-B, which may cause increased irritability.
7. Low toxicity, protective to liver, but it inhibits cytochrome P450 enzyme (a primary mechanism of detoxification), which can results in herb-drug interactions that can lead to liver injury

NAC (Th1 booster)
1. Significantly up-regulates NK cell activity, anti-inflammatory (reduces TNF-alpha and IL-6, promotes production of GSH, used to detox liver). However, a recent study found that lung tumors grew three times faster with NAC than without it.
2. Some anti-seizure at low doses (toxic at 75mg/kg and above, but OK at 60mg/kg and below)
3. Reduces glutamate
4. One of the key supplements for schizophrenia
5. Helps to recover cognition in traumatic brain injury, reduces OCD
6. Reduces irritability and OCD, but can cause yeast overgrowth. There is currently a clinical study underway to investigate NAC for reduction of SIB.
7. Low toxicity, actually is used to detox liver. Recommended to take in low doses (50-100mg) a few times a week. Chronic use od NAC can inhibit the body's own production of glutathione.


Things that passed most of my 7 requirements:

Fish Oil (non-specific towards Th1/Th2)
Passes all 7 requirements except EPA reduces NK activity

Reishi mushroom/Ganoderma lucidum
1. Increases IL-1, IL-2, IL-6, IL-12, IFN-gamma, TNF-alpha, GM-CSF, G-CSF, and M-CSF, histamine, NK activity. May over-activate immune system, too inflammatory.
2. Known to reduce seizures
3. effect on glutamate is not clear
4. Recommended for schizophrenia
5. improves cognition
6. adaptogen, bipolar users report calmness that they couldn't get with drugs, DOES NOT inhibit MAO! It contains oils called triterpenoids which significantly reduce the production of 5-alpha-reductase - a hormone which increases testosterone production
7. Safe, used to heal liver by reducing liver enzymes. However 2 cases are reported of fulminant hepatitis (acute liver failure) after 1-2 months of taking powdered Reishi.

Astragalus
1. stimulates NK cell activity and boosts IFN-alpha-1, IL-2, TNF-α, and IL-6 (not anti-inflammatory), very effective immune booster, it even reverses immune suppression induced by immune suppresant drugs
2. reported anti-convulsion properties
3. protects against glutamate-induced neurotoxicity
4. effect on schizophrenia is not known
5. no strong evidence of effect on cognition
6. adaptogen, which is supposed to stabilize mood, but it also reduces MAO activity by 50%, which can lead to irritability
7. Very low toxicity (LD50 = 40g/kg), reported to be protective to liver, but contraindicated for people with kidney diseases according to kidney.org.

Vinpocetine - a synthetic derivative of the vinca alkaloid vincamine, an extract from the lesser periwinkle plant
1. reduces TNF-α, IL-1β, IL-6 and NF-κB
2. Vinpocetine is an antiseizure medication with an action similar to Carbamazepine, involving a decrease in Na(+) channels permeability. Both Vinpocetine and Carbamazepine, in addition to anti-seizure action, reduce cerebral inflammation whereas Valproic acid doesn't.
3. inhibits glutamate release through blocking of Na(+) channels, able to completely abolish neuronal injury in glutamate toxicity. Vinpocetine is also thought to be a weak and nonselective antagonist of NMDA receptors.
4. reduces intracellular dopamine by increasing the dopamine metabolite DOPAC. This increase in DOPAC and reduction of dopamine is similar to MAO activation by anti-psychotic Reserpine, but this does not appear to be the case with Vinpocetine, which appears to impair vesicular storage of dopamine.
5. Vinpocetine is Viagra for the brain. It reduces resistance in cerebral vessels, increases cerebral flow, and dramatically improves short-term memory.
6. can increase irritability if increased blood flow results in headaches. Also, Vinpocetine may temporarily deplete the monoamines serotonin, dopamine and norepinephrine by inhibiting VMAT, thus preventing them from reaching the synapse. Vinpocetine may therefore induce or exacerbate depressive symptoms as an adverse effect.
7. Low toxicity (0.8g/kg), may reduce blood pressure at high doses, reduces liver enzymes with a potency similar to Silymarin (Milk Thistle). Dose should be limited to 10mg or less.

Ginger/Zingiber officinale
1. Downregulates inflammatory iNOS and COX-2 gene expression, inhibits production of NO, PGE, TNF-α, IL-1beta, IL-4,5,6 and IL-8, activates Nrf2. Effect on NK cells is not clear, but Ginger is claimed 10,000 more potent than chemotherapy at killing cancer stem cells.
2. Reduces tonic-clonic seizures probably due to blockade of C(+2) channels
3. Protects against glutamate toxicity
4. Increases dopamine and libido (perhaps not good in ASD)
5. Studies show positive effect on cognition and working memory, neuroprotection in cerebral ischemia
6. Contains quercetin, which may increase irritability
7. Very low toxicity (LD50 = 250g/kg), can be used to improve liver function in lamotrigine-induced hepatotoxicity, heartburn and stomach upset are common side effects, can cause kidney inflammation at high doses

Kudzu/Pueraria lobata
1. Decreases PGE2, TNF-alpha, IL-6, and IL-8, and increases IL-10. Not clear effect on NK cells.
2. Not clear effect on seizures
3. Reduces glutamate damage to axons
4. Not clear effect on dopamine
5. Increases blood circulation in brain, but weak effect on cognition
6. Not clear effect on behaviors
7. Low toxicity (LD50 = 20g/kg) but some internet sources warb that it may cause liver damage
Additional positive effect: promotes sweating

Rhodiola rosea
1. increases NK cells, significantly attenuates TNF-α, IL-1β, and IL-6
2. effect on seizures is not reported
3. protects neurons against glutamate toxicity and death through reduction in the accumulation of intracellular calcium
4. one of the herbs recommended for schizophrenia, specifically to elevate the mood, but it may precipitate an episode of mania, or violent hyperactivity, in patients with bipolar disorder
5. improves cognition thanks to inhibiting the activity of acetylcholinesterase
6. improves mood, but can overstimulate and increase agitation and anxiety, it inhibits MAO-A activity which leads to irritability in people with 'warrior gene'
7. very safe, protects liver and kidneys

Holy Basil/Ocimum sanctum
1. reduces IL-6, TNF-alpha, MIP-1alpha, and MCP-1,, potent COX-2 inhibitor
2. Rosmarinic acid found in Holy Basil reduces seizures
3. protects against MSG toxicity
4. increases dopamine and serotonin, possibly a MAO inhibitor
5. enhances cerebral circulation and improves memory, lifts mental fog. For these reasons, it has been used to treat ADD and ADHD.
6. as adoptogen protects against stress, promotes relaxation, helps to maintain normal blood sugar levels
7. promotes healthy liver functioning, eliminates harmful chemicals in the bloodstream and protects against liver disease. It also has the ability to strengthen the kidneys.

Quercetin
1. promotes NK cell activity, equally or more effective at reducing TNF-α and IL-6 than Resveratrol, activates Nrf2
2. no effect on seizures
3. quercetin inhibits glutamate release from cortical synaptosomes and this effect is linked to a decrease in presynaptic voltage-dependent Ca(2+) entry and to the suppression of PKC and PKA activity
4. Quercetin has potential for the treatment of neuroleptic-induced extrapyramidal side effects of schizophrenia medications. But, it inhibits MAO-A and COMT, which remove dopamine, thus increasing dopamine levels (rutin and luteolin are also MAO-A and COMT inhibitors)
5. weak effect on cognition
6. can increase irritability due to MAO-A and COMT inhibition (that is what Luteolin did to my son). It is a pity since Quercetin is another known HDAC inhibitor after Sulforphane, which should make it really good for mood stabilization and EEG normalization. There are no more known natural HDAC inhibitors.
7. somewhat protective effect on liver injury, but very high doses (>1g) may damage kidneys.

Chinese Skullcap/Scutellaria baicalensis
1. reduces NK cells and IL-2 activity (so, not really a 'Th1 booster'). In fact, one study showed that Chinese Skullcap has an anti-abortive effect by inhibiting maternal-fetal interface immunity. It also reduces pro-inflammatory cytokines TNF-alpha, IL-1beta, IL-6, IL-12. and NO. It reduces expression of COX-2, PGE2, NFkB and I-kappaB-alpha and activates Nrf2.
2. may cause sezires
3. contains Oroxylin A, which acts as Ritalin's methylphenidate in the sense that both are dopamine reuptake inhibitors. This makes Skullcap a good ADHD herb. But, Chinese Skullcap can also trigger an early on-set of schizophrenia just like methylphenidate-based ADHD drugs. Chinese Skullcap also contains baicalin, which is prolyl oligopeptidase inhibitor. Prolyl oligopeptidase is a cytosolic serine peptidase that hydrolyzes proline-containing peptides at the carboxy terminus of proline residues. It has been associated with schizophrenia, bipolar affective disorder, and related neuropsychiatric disorders. Therefore, baicalin is a highly attractive base to develop new treatments for schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, and related neuropsychiatric diseases.
4. dose-dependent inhibition of the glutamate-induced excitotoxicity through the inhibition of NMDA receptor function by interacting with the glycine binding site of the NMDA receptor. Inhibition of NMDA receptors is quite promising.
5. Improves ADHD symptoms by increasing dopamine
6. irritability ???
7. Low toxicity (LD50 = 3g/kg). Some sources claim that baicalein ingredient of Skullcap is protective to liver. But some sources claim that it may be toxic to liver. There were several reports of liver damage when Skullcap was taken together with other herbs. Biopsy proved that the damage was due to Skullcap.

Things that didn't pass

Vitamin A - considered to be neurotoxic and toxic to liver, induces mitochondrial dysfunction, increases beta amyloid peptides and TNF-alpha. But, on a positive side it is one of very few substances that activate MAO-A enzyme.

Gotu Kola - inhibits the uptake of glutamate and increases GABA in the brain, but excessive doses can be slightly narcotic and can cause headache, dizziness, giddiness, or skin irritation. Harmful to liver.

Kava Kava - harmful to liver. Because of hepatoxicity, Kava Kava is banned or restricted in Germany, Switzerland, France, Canada, and Britain. MAO-B inhibitor.

Lemon Balm - causes liver damage at high doses

Goldenseal (berberine) - neurotoxic, increases sensitivity of NMDA receptors to glutamate, exacerbates neurodegeneration, causes mitochondia swelling and oxidative stress, inhibits MAO-A resulting in irritability

Gingko Biloba - can cause seizures, increases dopamine by inhibiting MAO-A/B

Ginseng (true, Panax) - can cause seizures, reduces MAO activity by 50%, which can cause irritability in 'warrior gene' carriers.

Eleuthero/Siberian Ginseng - contrary to popular belief, Siberian ginseng doesn't significantly stimulate innate macrophage immune functions, it has no effect on pro-inflammatory cytokines IL-1beta and TNF-alpha, less likely to cause seizures than true ginseng.

Cat's Claw - potent inhibitor of prostaglandin E2 production and TNF-alpha, but stimulates IL-1 and IL-6. It might cause the immune system to become more active, and this could increase the symptoms of auto-immune diseases. Cat's Claw is a MAO-B inhibitor, which may lead to irritability. Cat’s claw is rich in tannins, which could cause such gastrointestinal side effects as abdominal pain and diarrhea. Toxic to kidneys. Not recommended for a long use.

Avena sativa (Wild Oats) is also recommended as an ADHD herb, but its mechanism is based on MAO-B inhibition and dopamine increase. Wild oats are also recommended to reduce anger.

Evening Primrose - not recommended for people with seizures or schizophrenia

Maitake mushroom - increases TNF-alpha, IFN-gamma, IL-1,12, not exactly anti-inflammatory

Cocoa, Echinacea - increase IL-1, IL-6, IL-10, and TNF-α, not anti-inflammatory. Echinacea contains quercetin, which is a MAO-A inhibitor. Cocoa is also a MAO-B inhibitor, which is not good.

Garlic - different metabolites of garlic do different things, but overall it increases TNF-α and IL-6, putting it in category of pro-iflammatory

Curcumin - inhibits MAO-A activity resulting in higher neurotransmitter levels. Not suitable for people with MAO-A mutation (like my son) because it can increase irritability. It is also a sulfur based substances, which aggravate behaviors further in people with CBS mutations.

Licorice - inhibits IL-1beta, -6, and -8 and TNF-alpha, activates Nrf2, but is also a strong MAO inhibitor. Toxic to kidneys, can cause hypertension, hypokalamia, heart failure and death.

Passion Flower - can cause liver damage

Fenugreek - can cause seizures

Neem - enhance the production of IL-2, IFN-gamme, and TNF-o, not anti-inflammatory

Avoid minerals in the form of picolinate because picolinate can alter levels of various neurotransmitters
Last edited by FatherOf2 on Sat Feb 11, 2017 1:26 am, edited 69 times in total.

FatherOf2
Posts: 1587
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Re: How to reduce stimming

Postby FatherOf2 » Sat Feb 04, 2017 3:06 pm

To summarize my downselection of immune boosters, the most interesting and worth trying substances are:
1. Sulforaphane - an amazing substance if you can get it active. I have been giving broccoli sprouts extract Enduracell to my son for more than a year, and I never saw anything. The problem is that most Sulforaphane supplements don't have active Sulforaphane because it requires freezing at the time of preparation, otherwise it becomes inactive within 1-2 hours. There is currently a clinical trial of Sulforaphane on autistic children: https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT02561481
2. Honokiol - I am moving it to number 2 on my list of screened herbs because of its powerful anti-cancer properties (just like Sulforaphane), strong anti-inflammatory, anti-seizure and calming actions without toxicity to liver. It makes GABA receptors more sensitive and improves NREM sleep. This might be the herb that can reduce stimming.
3. Pycnogenol - in addition to anti-inflammatory and anti-oxidant properties, it has been studied for ADHD with some positive results. It boosts friendly nitric oxide (eNOS) and increases blood circulation in the brain. It should work well together with B3/niacin.
4. Bacopa/Brahmi and Ashwagandha - great all around herbs to reduce inflammation, protect neurons from glutamate toxicity, reduce sezires and boost cognition. Ashwagandha has an additional rare benefit of reducing inhibition of MAO enzymes by other supplements.
5. Vinpocetine - an anti-seizure alkaloid with added benefits of strong promoting cerebral blood flow, reducing neuro-inflammation, reducing glutamate toxicity, reducing dopamine in a MAO boost fashion, and reducing liver enzymes in a Milk Thistle fashion. It should be noted that FDA continues to object selling Vinpocetine as a supplements because its a synthetic analog of alkaloids found in periwinkle (http://www.nutraingredients-usa.com/Regulation/Senator-Hatch-urges-withdrawal-of-vinpocetine-notice).
6. Chinese Thorowax Root (Bupleurum Chinense) - another remarkable herb, which is used in several traditional Chinese medicines including liver detox, ADHD, anti-seizure, and scizophrenia (all the actions that I am interested in). One of the few herbs I found (the other one is Stephania intermedia) that block D2 dopamine receptors like atypical antipsychotics Risperidone and Aripiprazole. One study found that TCM with Bupleurum as effective as Ritalin in ADHD, but with less side-effects and added bonus of EEG stabilization. Stephania intermedia would be another good choice because of its D1 agonist and D2 antagonist properties (a perfect combo for an ADHD treatment), but I couldn't find it in stores.

ADHD treatments are discussed here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4757677/
Last edited by FatherOf2 on Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:37 am, edited 14 times in total.

calbreezy
Posts: 7
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Re: How to reduce stimming

Postby calbreezy » Sat Feb 04, 2017 8:19 pm

FatherOf2 wrote:To summarize my downselection of immune boosters, the most interesting and worth trying substances are:
1. Lion's Mane mushrooms thanks to their NGF action (regenrate nerves) and cognitive enhancement. But most users report no effect at all. Cordyceps and especially Reishi mushrooms also look promising.
2. Bacopa/Brahmi - a great all around herb to reduce inflammation, protect neurons from glutamate toxicity, reduce sezires and boost cognition.
3. Sulforaphane - an amazing substance if you can get it active. I have been giving broccoli sprouts extract Enduracell to my son for more than a year, and I never saw anything. The problem is that most Sulforaphane supplements don't have active Sulforaphane because it requires freezing at the time of preparation, otherwise it becomes inactive within 1-2 hours. There is currently a clinical trial of Sulforaphane on autistic children: , https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT02561481
4. NAC - good for everything (detoxes liver, reduces glutamate, helps reduce schizophrenia symptoms) except if you have a cancer.


We are have been adding in Sulforaphane for the last two weeks with some good results. (better receptive communication, slightly better expressive, and better overall with following sequential instructions). I did not know about it becoming inactive after 1 or 2 hours - so that is interesting. We are currently using SulforaClear by Metagenics.

We are also just started some homeopathic detoxing for vaccinations.

Once we finish the detoxing we will try the Enhansa or the Lutimax.

Have you tried LDN?

FatherOf2
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Re: How to reduce stimming

Postby FatherOf2 » Sun Feb 05, 2017 3:22 am

calbreezy wrote:We are have been adding in Sulforaphane for the last two weeks with some good results. (better receptive communication, slightly better expressive, and better overall with following sequential instructions). I did not know about it becoming inactive after 1 or 2 hours - so that is interesting. We are currently using SulforaClear by Metagenics.

We are also just started some homeopathic detoxing for vaccinations.

Once we finish the detoxing we will try the Enhansa or the Lutimax.

Have you tried LDN?

I just read the descriptions of multiple clinical trials of Sulforaphane. It appears that all of them use Avmacol from Nutramax Labs (http://www.avmacol.com/Avmacol.html#). I just ordered it to see if it works any better than Enduracell.

I tried LDN cream on my son. I don't remember seeing any improvements.

calbreezy
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:41 pm

Re: How to reduce stimming

Postby calbreezy » Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:34 am

FatherOf2 wrote:
calbreezy wrote:We are have been adding in Sulforaphane for the last two weeks with some good results. (better receptive communication, slightly better expressive, and better overall with following sequential instructions). I did not know about it becoming inactive after 1 or 2 hours - so that is interesting. We are currently using SulforaClear by Metagenics.

We are also just started some homeopathic detoxing for vaccinations.

Once we finish the detoxing we will try the Enhansa or the Lutimax.

Have you tried LDN?

I just read the descriptions of multiple clinical trials of Sulforaphane. It appears that all of them use Avmacol from Nutramax Labs (http://www.avmacol.com/Avmacol.html#). I just ordered it to see if it works any better than Enduracell.

I tried LDN cream on my son. I don't remember seeing any improvements.


Thanks for the link. I saw the following on Autism Speaks re. liver inflammation and seizures however that trial was very small. Thought I would pass along.

https://www.autismspeaks.org/blog/2014/ ... -need-know

FatherOf2
Posts: 1587
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:37 am

Re: How to reduce stimming

Postby FatherOf2 » Sun Feb 05, 2017 12:22 pm

calbreezy wrote:Thanks for the link. I saw the following on Autism Speaks re. liver inflammation and seizures however that trial was very small. Thought I would pass along.

https://www.autismspeaks.org/blog/2014/ ... -need-know

Thanks. I saw the results of that study. Two seizures events, one in a participant with a previously undisclosed seizure and the other in a different participant after termination of Sulforophane. The seizures were thought to be the results of Sulforophane inhibiting histone deacetylase (HDAC). but that doesn't make sense because HDAC inhibitors (and Valproic acid is one of them) are thought to be antiepileptic. I don't see anything in Sulforaphane action that would point to a possibility of seizures.

A slight increase in liver enzymes is concerning because my son is already taking Lamotrigine, which increases liver enzymes. I just added Vinpocetine to my list of things to try (see my edited message above). The interesting thing about Vipocetine is that it is an anti-seizure med available over the counter and has liver protecting proerties (reduces liver enzymes) similarly to Milk Thistle. Sulforaphane + Vinpocetine (keep it at 10mg or less) should be a powerful combo.

Nikkie111
Posts: 307
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2015 6:26 am

Re: How to reduce stimming

Postby Nikkie111 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:07 pm

FatherOf2 wrote:
calbreezy wrote:We are have been adding in Sulforaphane for the last two weeks with some good results. (better receptive communication, slightly better expressive, and better overall with following sequential instructions). I did not know about it becoming inactive after 1 or 2 hours - so that is interesting. We are currently using SulforaClear by Metagenics.

We are also just started some homeopathic detoxing for vaccinations.

Once we finish the detoxing we will try the Enhansa or the Lutimax.

Have you tried LDN?

I just read the descriptions of multiple clinical trials of Sulforaphane. It appears that all of them use Avmacol from Nutramax Labs (http://www.avmacol.com/Avmacol.html#). I just ordered it to see if it works any better than Enduracell.

I tried LDN cream on my son. I don't remember seeing any improvements.

You're a lucky man!! They don't ship to Uk unfortunately!!
Still helpful info!!


On your previous posts thoughts it really is worth trying maitake (I appreciate you don't want Chinese skullcap ) we've had shocking progress from these two (and others.. Including Leon's mane...) but had couple of shocking yeasty behaviours as well...... Not sure about your boy but if we could get those bowels moving more often we'd be pretty much finished!

FatherOf2
Posts: 1587
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:37 am

Re: How to reduce stimming

Postby FatherOf2 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:54 pm

Nikkie111 wrote:You're a lucky man!! They don't ship to Uk unfortunately!!
Still helpful info!!


On your previous posts thoughts it really is worth trying maitake (I appreciate you don't want Chinese skullcap ) we've had shocking progress from these two (and others.. Including Leon's mane...) but had couple of shocking yeasty behaviours as well...... Not sure about your boy but if we could get those bowels moving more often we'd be pretty much finished!

Chinese Skullcap looks more interesting that Maitake mushrooms. The liver damage reports are not conclusive of whether the damage is related to Chinese Skullcap or other herbs:
https://livertox.nih.gov/Skullcap.htm
http://bottomlineinc.com/the-truth-about-herbal-supplements-and-your-liver/
Every child situation is unique. It took us a lot of trials and errors to overcome anger and SIB issues to be where we are today. So, anything that can remotely bring the behaviors back (like an increase in dopamine seen with Chinese Skullcap) gets scrutinized by me. Chinese Skullcap contains Oroxylin A, which acts as Ritalin's methylphenidate in the sense that both are dopamine reuptake inhibitors. This makes Skullcap a good ADHD herb: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23371806. However, I consciously stay away from Ritalin and other methylphenidate-based ADHD meds for one reason only - I am scared of on-setting schizophrenia, even though lack of focus is right now my son's biggest problem (see FDA warning:http://www.schizophrenia.com/sznews/archives/004802.html). If I ignore this side effect of high dopamine, I might as well try Ritalin or Focalin as my son's psychiatrist recommended years ago. I still think that the way out of ASD is through addressing inflammation and blood circulation issues.

Nikkie111
Posts: 307
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2015 6:26 am

Re: How to reduce stimming

Postby Nikkie111 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:23 am

FatherOf2 wrote:
Nikkie111 wrote:You're a lucky man!! They don't ship to Uk unfortunately!!
Still helpful info!!


On your previous posts thoughts it really is worth trying maitake (I appreciate you don't want Chinese skullcap ) we've had shocking progress from these two (and others.. Including Leon's mane...) but had couple of shocking yeasty behaviours as well...... Not sure about your boy but if we could get those bowels moving more often we'd be pretty much finished!

Chinese Skullcap looks more interesting that Maitake mushrooms. The liver damage reports are not conclusive of whether the damage is related to Chinese Skullcap or other herbs:
https://livertox.nih.gov/Skullcap.htm
http://bottomlineinc.com/the-truth-about-herbal-supplements-and-your-liver/
Every child situation is unique. It took us a lot of trials and errors to overcome anger and SIB issues to be where we are today. So, anything that can remotely bring the behaviors back (like an increase in dopamine seen with Chinese Skullcap) gets scrutinized by me. Chinese Skullcap contains Oroxylin A, which acts as Ritalin's methylphenidate in the sense that both are dopamine reuptake inhibitors. This makes Skullcap a good ADHD herb: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23371806. However, I consciously stay away from Ritalin and other methylphenidate-based ADHD meds for one reason only - I am scared of on-setting schizophrenia, even though lack of focus is right now my son's biggest problem (see FDA warning:http://www.schizophrenia.com/sznews/archives/004802.html). If I ignore this side effect of high dopamine, I might as well try Ritalin or Focalin as my son's psychiatrist recommended years ago. I still think that the way out of ASD is through addressing inflammation and blood circulation issues.


ah interesting you saying Skullcap increases dopamine - Buhner specifically said it increases melatonin and serotonin (so opposite to dopamine)
I didn't realise it'd be good for ADHD, but I am not 100% sure it helped with us on this area ...we don't have ADHD, but lately he's bit more 'excited' than usual, hence his focus is a bit out sometimes, but somehow he's doing brilliant cognitively and academically and has 'woken up' in a way, playing with mates, participating, talking nicely, so not sure what did that! But I have to say we are very yeasty some days where he regresses quite a but, and the only thing that sorts it, is him moving his bowels more than 2 a day...which is hard case of the gut dysmotility these kids have

wrt to adhd drugs I thought there was a warning about them about possible brain implications if used long term but I am not sure and I don't want to scare anyone but like any drugs if there is a real benefit only then you use them :)

so all in all I can absolutely see why you're cautious and possibly some of our gains is cause I use 10 herbs at a time!!!

please let us know how the sulforophane goes..... if it's any good I might send hubby to US to get some :P

FatherOf2
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Re: How to reduce stimming

Postby FatherOf2 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:53 am

Adding another herb on the list Magnolia Bark Extract, and specifically Honokiol, which I am putting as #2 on my list. It has powerful anti-cancer properties (just like Sulforaphane), strong anti-inflammatory, anti-seizure and calming actions without toxicity to liver. This might be the herb that can reduce stimming. However, nor trials or reports of use of this herb in children.

FatherOf2
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Re: How to reduce stimming

Postby FatherOf2 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:55 am

Adding another herb to try: Chinese Thorowax Root or Bupleurum Chinense - used in several traditional Chinese medicines including liver detox, ADHD, anti-seizure, and scizophrenia (all the actions that I am interested in). One of the few herbs I found (the other one is Stephania) that block D2 dopamine receptors like atypical antipsychotics Risperidone and Aripiprazole. One study found TCM with Bupleurum as effective as Ritalin in ADHD, but with less side-effects and added bonus of EEG stabilization.

This week, I have been trying Pycnagenol on my son again, at 50mg/day and then 100mg/day. I might have noticed a slight improvement in awareness, but really hard to say for sure. No reduction in stimming. The school hasn't noticed any improvements either. I have been taking Pycnagenol myself at 100mg/day, and it is a dudd. Too much hype about nothing. I got Avmacol (Sulphoraphane formula used in clinical studies) today. I will replace EnduraCELL tomorrow. After that Vinpocetine.

FatherOf2
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Re: How to reduce stimming

Postby FatherOf2 » Sun Feb 12, 2017 4:41 pm

Update: I replaced EnduraCell with Avmacol as a source of Sulforaphane. Tried it for 3 days. No difference. Just a waste of money. The only time I saw Sulforaphane doing anything was the very first day we gave it to my son as a freshly squeezed broccoli sprouts juice. My son had a border-line fever and became noticeably less hyper. All these powders are either inactive or my son has developed a tolerance to Sulforaphane after many months of non-stop supplementing.

We tried Ashwagandha today, in the mornging, 150mg of Jarrow's KSM-66. DISASTER! My son's all old behaviors were brought to life. Huge irritability, hostility, self-injurious behavior, talking to himself. Who writes these articles about Ashwagandha, mentioning only positive effects? The big negative is that it reduces blood sugar levels, which in my son brings up the worst. How many times I told myself "don't mess with adrenal glands and cortisol" ever since my failed chelation attempts. Perhaps if given in the evening Ashwagandha could be OK. I am not sure if I should try that just to put a cross on this herb.
Last edited by FatherOf2 on Sun Feb 12, 2017 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Nikkie111
Posts: 307
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2015 6:26 am

Re: How to reduce stimming

Postby Nikkie111 » Sun Feb 12, 2017 5:18 pm

FatherOf2 wrote:Update: I replaced EnduraCell with Avmacol as a source of Sulforaphane. Tried it for 3 days. No difference. Just a waste of money. The only time I saw Sulforaphane doing anything was the very first day we gave it to my son as a freshly squeezed broccoli sprouts juice. My son had a border-line fever and became noticeably less hyper. All these powders are either inactive or my son has developed a tolerance to Sulforaphane after many months of non-stop supplementing.

We tried Ashwagandha today, in the mornging, 150mg of Jarrow's KSM-66. DISASTER! My son's all old behaviors were brought to life. Huge irritability, hostility, self-injurious behavior, talking to himself. Who writes these articles about Ashwagandha, mentioning only positive effects? The big negative is that it reduces blood sugar levels, which in my son brings up the worst. How many times I told myself "don't mess with adrenal glands and cortisol" ever since my failed chelation attempts. Perhaps if given in the evening Ashwagandha could be OK. I am not sure if I should try that just to put a cross on this herb.

Maybe you should give avmacol bit longer??
Thank God you told me about Ashwagandha I never tried it! How come you tried it by the way?
I personally wouldn't try it again

FatherOf2
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Re: How to reduce stimming

Postby FatherOf2 » Sun Feb 12, 2017 5:31 pm

Nikkie111 wrote:Maybe you should give avmacol bit longer??
Thank God you told me about Ashwagandha I never tried it! How come you tried it by the way?
I personally wouldn't try it again

I may continue Avmacol, but I am treating it as a food at this time, nothing more, just a convenient way to give my son broccoli. I think steamed broccoli has a higher activity and nutritional value, but my son doesn't eat it.

I decided to try Ashwagandha because I observed my son at school this week, and he was very anxious, closing his ears, etc. I thought that if I treat his anxiety, he would be more successful at school. Ashwagandha is a #1 herb mentioned for anxiety, so I gave it a try. But herbs come with many other actions. I should probably try low-dose SSRI one of these days just to isolate anti-anxiety action from the rest. My son is unique in the sense that he has severe methylation mutations which limit the production of neurotransmitters. At the same time, he has MAO-A and VMAT1 mutations which increase these neurotransmitters. I have to selectively try serotonin (calmness) and dopamine (motivation and happiness) boosters to see if he improves. So, Chinese Skullcap is still on my list. I can't just give methylfolate and bring all neurotransmitters up, including norepinephrine, which is responsible for hostility and irritability, and epinephrine, which is responsible for anxiety.

Nikkie111
Posts: 307
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Re: How to reduce stimming

Postby Nikkie111 » Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:39 pm

Fo2 if you do end up doing Chinese skullcap pls give it hours away from meds as it really increases their potency and you might have odd results


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