How did you choose your DAN doctor?

Discuss autism diets and biomedical treatments of autism.

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mama23miracles
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How did you choose your DAN doctor?

Postby mama23miracles » Fri Dec 23, 2005 7:46 pm

Just wondering how you all decided upon the DAN doctor to send your child to see. Was your decision soley based on geographic location or did you get recommendations from others? Does anyone have any recommendations...I live in South Central/East PA (Lancaster County). Does anyone have any positive or negative experiences to share regarding a DAN doctor? Thanks!
Jen (mom to Zach - 5 yo with mild/moderate autism and Dylan & Drew - 3 yo twins with PDD-NOS

Guest

Postby Guest » Fri Dec 23, 2005 8:55 pm

Unfortunately, geography played a big role for us.
The positive was that each of the docs we saw took up a great amount of time, very unusual for a "regular" doctor's visit.
It would be nice to find someone who tries to figure out YOUR particular child, as far as what is wrong in his/her case, and doesn't just throw out all supps/tests/treatments available in a blanket fashion.
Also- beware that many DAN! docs run a business as well, including in-house testing and in-house pharmacies. One of our DAN!'s wanted to sell me a whole bunch of supplements, some of which had to be changed after the labs came back (makes you wonder why we didn't just wait for the labs), some of which were redundant with what my son was already on (but we had to get the brand THEY carried). Some DAN!'s become distributers for MLM companies and this will bias their recommendations, because they get kick-backs from what they prescribe. (this was our first doc).
I'm not saying DAN!'s are out there to get you, I'm just recounting the experiences we've had. Best would be to get a recommendation from other parents, who have BTDT.
My preference would be a DAN! with a background in traditional medicine (often times docs who learn DAN! because they have affected kids themselves). This will allow for them to keep an open mind to ALL that's available as well as keep abreast of mainstream literature.

That's my 2 cents.
Alex's mom

gdv2500
Posts: 723
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2005 3:59 pm

Postby gdv2500 » Fri Dec 23, 2005 11:51 pm

Geography was a big factor as well as the fact that one of the docs was on our insurance. We also talked to other parents (mainly moms) who used the same doctor. My wife frequently goes to a support group and asks what supplements, what regimins, etc. different doctors are using. This has helped us a great deal. However, we're still finding out more and more every day by reading discussion forums like this and talking to people.

For us, the DAN! advises and recommends, but we make the ultimate decisions. He has not agreed with all that we are doing with our son (NDF Plus being the main disagreement). However, he works with us and respects our opinions. We may not have done Methyl B12 if not for his advice, so I think that he has done great things for Cameron. Also, I don't feel like I'm being treated like a child when I talk to him.

We use Dr. Arnold Brenner. We have an appointment coming up with Dr. Alan Vinitsky, so we will see what he has to add or comment on.

Good luck!
Gary - Cameron's Dad

Maryann Richards

Chosing a DAN

Postby Maryann Richards » Sat Dec 24, 2005 11:35 pm

Hi there,
I am from Lebanon County, PA .. your neighbor LOL. Location was a factor initially when we tried to find a DAN. We saw one for a VERY short time in PA and were not really happy. After doing a lot of research and talking to other moms and looking at Dr. N's website our decision was easy. We are VERY happy to travel 2 1/2 hours. We only have to do it once per year and can do phone consults the other times if we want. I think it's important to feel comfortable with a person and that you and he/she "click" and you have to trust them. Hope this helps :)
Maryann

Cornelia Guest

Re: How did you choose your DAN doctor?

Postby Cornelia Guest » Sun Dec 25, 2005 2:35 am

mama23miracles wrote:Just wondering how you all decided upon the DAN doctor to send your child to see. Was your decision soley based on geographic location or did you get recommendations from others? Does anyone have any recommendations...I live in South Central/East PA (Lancaster County). Does anyone have any positive or negative experiences to share regarding a DAN doctor? Thanks!


Hi,
http://abms.org/about.asp
Do you know about how to check to see if a doc is board certified in a specialty?? theres a site calld American Board of Medical Specialties. You have to sign up to search to see who is board certified but it's free. Thats how I found that Dr Kartzinel is a board certified pediatrician in two states, but that almost no other docs in atuism biomed are board certified. Even James neubrander is not board certified according to this offical website. Buttar is not, Bradstreet is not, Geier is not, Hornig is. Kringsman is. amy Holmes is, in radiation oncology. Wakefield isn't licensed in the states and might lose his license in England next year. Krignsman got into some kind of trouble with his license in Florida or something, but he is licensed. All the others, I think, are licensed, just not baord certified. Of course, guys with phd's like Boyd Haley are not MDs and so not licensed. So I think if you are going to pick a DAN you should get one who is board certified like Kartzinel and not one who hasn't takent the time to keep himself up on things and looks unlegitimate because he isn't board certified. All my kid's docs ar board certified. I think its important. I bet the DANs who are into MLM aren't board certified.

thanks

rlneub
Posts: 1872
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 6:37 pm

Postby rlneub » Sun Dec 25, 2005 9:24 am

Jim is board certified in in environmental medicine and this is on his CV. http://www.aaem.com/referable_physicians.htm http://www.americanboardofenvironmentalmedicine.org/

The site http://abms.org/about.asp only lists the top 25 recognized boards. Jim tells me that are 125 recognized boards for specialties. Many of the docs you say are not Board Certified are certified in a specialty.

(The things I learn on Christmas Day. All this was new to me and I can see how it can be disconcerting to see that many of the "trusted" docs are not certified. Check out their CVs to see if they are certified in a specialty. I know Dr. Green is from environmental medicine like Jim but not sure what the other docs specialties are)

I bet the DANs who are into MLM aren't board certified.


In New Jersey, a doctor cannot sell anything he prescribes.

Guest

Postby Guest » Sun Dec 25, 2005 10:13 am

I would also prefer someone who is boarded, even though unfortunately there is no "board" cert process to become a DAN! doc and board cert in say radiation oncology wouldn't help much DAN! -wise. But it does tell me more about the doc as a person and their learning style.
I have to say, it was a big surprise for me that Dr. Buttar wasn't certified, I was sure that with all those letters after his name and VP of a national toxicology association he was boarded in medical toxicology (which is an accepted certificate). He is a DO, but DO's have nowadays the same options as MD's.
Alex's mom

rlneub
Posts: 1872
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 6:37 pm

Postby rlneub » Sun Dec 25, 2005 10:59 am

Regarding “Board Certification” – what is really means; what you really want.

In the United States, there are plus or minus 25 “basic” boards – the organizations that have established a certain set of “acceptable” diagnostic procedures and treatment protocols that their members are to follow after completing the necessary years of training and passing a test. Insurance companies set their reimbursement schedules in accordance with these “board criteria” and justify their lack of payment to parents based on these “usual and customary” procedures.

In addition to the 25 basic boards, there are approximately 120 additional boards – boards like the American and International Board of Environmental Medicine. These organizations also set up an established criteria that is accord with their paradigms as to what constitutes ‘acceptable” diagnostic procedures and treatment protocols for their members to follow. These organizations also require years of training and passing oral and written tests to be considered proficient in that specific field of learning.

After one completes the years of training in a certain field and subsequently passes the board examinations, they are then considered a “Diplomat” of that board. For me, my board certification is listed as “Diplomat – International Board of Environmental Medicine. When a clinician completes even further training in a specific field and then pass whatever process each organization requires to show competency in that field, they also receive the additional distinction of becoming a “Fellow”. Therefore I went on to receive my “fellowship” in Environmental Medicine. This new distinction of competency in the field allows me to sign after M.D. the letters FAAEM which mean Fellow of the American Academy of Environmental Medicine. These letters are similar to those after a surgeon’s name – FACS – Fellow of the American College of Surgeons; or after a pediatrician’s name – FAAP – Fellow of the American College of Pediatrics.

The American Academy of Environmental Medicine has a four-tract course of training. Broadly speaking these tracts include chronic illnesses, allergy and immunology, toxicology, and nutritional biochemistry. These were my areas of interest and the reason that I decided not to spend the extra years necessary to become board certified as, let’s say, a pediatrician. Both would require thousands of hours and thousands of patient contacts before becoming truly proficient no matter whether one was granted “membership into an organization” by passing a board exam. Therefore, because I wanted to understand nutrition, not just from the conventional “RDA point of view”, but from a broader patient base – parent base, I chose to get my boards in this field to “get the paper” while continuing my “greater education” by listening to the parents. The same principle applies for each of the other tracts involved in Environmental Medicine. I wanted to include conventional training and sound science when considering the effects of toxic agents on our body but I did not want to stop there when treating my patients until some double-blind placebo-control study proved something too late to help the majority of them. And with that, let me say that all the rest of what I do can be contained in the “big etcetera” – not only my paradigm, but also my promise to my parents.

The reason this is my paradigm and promise is because of what you really were wanting to know when you questioned my credentials, or the credentials of any of my colleagues – is this person trained well enough to safely care for my child. The answer for me, and for those I consider my colleagues and friends from the DAN! organization is an undeniable and unquestionable “yes”. For you see, board certification does not ensure individual thinking. It does not assure safety. It cannot guarantee success or avoid failure. Look at the vaccine issue. Look at the mercury debacle. Look at the thousands of children with autism who could be helped with a simple shot or nasal spray of methyl-B12. Look at the lack of knowledge your “board certified doctor” has about nutrition, heavy metal toxicity, and the issues in general. They are good people who are following their paradigm but is their paradigm helping your child today before it’s too late and your child is too old? Look at whether or not your “board certified doctors” validate or invalidate you or hide behind not having to have read the available literature and come to their own conclusions – ones often 180 degrees from those they now have – instead of saying the angering phrase, “There’s no proof.” Look at the insurance companies who hide behind “usual and customary” as their reason not to pay for your child’s well deserved treatment – oftentimes the only treatment that has worked for your child but one that you must pay out of your pocket – a pocket already financially strapped to the max!

Therefore, what you really want is a doctor “brain certified” doctor who will listen to what you say, validate your cares and concerns, and dig in with you as a team member to work as hard as possible to do everything they can to help you accomplish your single and most important goal --- “Help me get my child back!” Though we will never promise how far we can get any child, my colleagues and I can promise that we will do all in our power to hang in there with you as long as it takes.

With that I will end and say to those that know me, “Thank you for the years you have given me. I truly consider it a privilege and an honor for you to have entrusted your children to me. And though far from financially stable, I consider myself the richest man in the world because of each of you and your children and what I have been able to accomplish. To those who do not know me I can only say that I hope you hear my heart and know that the company I keep, my distinguished colleagues, the DAN! leadership, also have the same heart. And for everyone’s information, I cannot recall any of them who are not board certified – and without a doubt, they are brain certified and a wonderful group of men and women whom you can trust.


Jim Neubrander

Guest

Postby Guest » Sun Dec 25, 2005 10:59 am

The site http://abms.org/about.asp only lists the top 25 recognized boards. Jim tells me that are 125 recognized boards for specialties. Many of the docs you say are not Board Certified are certified in a specialty.


The ABMS (the real deal) does not recognize the American Board of Enviromental Medicine (unless this board has met the standards for recognition by the ABMS as a sub-specialty, applied for recognition, and been accepted recently).

I cannot speak for the medical expertise of docs that are either board certified (ABMS) or not, but this is very confusing for consumers and patients. Most people assume that "board certification" means ABMS. I did find the following on a consumer website, however:

In 1995, Medical Economics magazine reported that more than 75 boards not ABMS- or AOA-affiliated had issued certificates to thousands of physicians. Although a few of these self-designated boards are run legitimately and may eventually achieve ABMS or AOA recognition, most do not require residency training in their specialty. The author stated that "some physicians use fringe board certification to attract patients, who usually don't know the difference. . . . And only a handful of states restrict the advertising of board certifications or specialties." [2] Certification by any of the following suggests that a pracitioner is involved with dubious methods:

American Board of Chelation Therapy
American Board of Holistic Medicine
American Board of Environmental Medicine
International Board of Environmental Medicine

Most physicians identified as specialists in the Yellow Pages have completed accredited specialty training. However, telephone directory publishers rarely attempt to verify credentials, so self-proclaimed specialists may be listed also. The ABMS Verification Service provides a simple way to check whether a doctor has ABMS-recognized certification. The Board also has been placing lists of board-certified physicians in many telephone directories, but many board-certified physicians are not included because they do not wish to pay the required fee (over $200 per year).


Again, this is not meant to comment on the quality of medicine practiced by non-ABMS certified docs, just clarification.

Winnie

bizymom
Posts: 564
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2005 9:54 pm

Postby bizymom » Sun Dec 25, 2005 11:54 am

Dr. Neubrander, Rick & listmates,

Thank you for taking the time to respond to this question.

Over the past 2+ years, we've consulted with 6 DANs: a dietitian, an RN, a naturopath and 3 MDs. We DAN jumped for several reasons: closing practices, difficulty w/communication, availability, referrals from one to another, etc.

I can honestly say that five of the six DANs we encountered were caring, knowledgeable, honest and experts in the diet/biomed field. We learned important things from all of them and they all contributed positively to our boys' recovery effort. There was only one who we felt didn't know much more than us, although he/she didn't claim to either.

In the end, we went with who we felt was the best fit for our family and who (to paraphrase from Dr. N's post) will do all in their power to hang in there with us as long as it takes. The DAN my boys see is the furthest from my home (a 3+ hour drive), doesn't accept our insurance (another one did), and is at the top of the fee scale. Thus far, this DAN has been worth the inconvenience and expense.

I thank god everyday for the DAN organization and the parents on this board and other boards who have given us so much support, advice, encouragement and information. My family has also benefitted greatly from all of the free advice and information from the message board posts and websites of DANs like Dr. Neubrander, Dr. McCandless and others.

My children are not yet recovered but they have made gains. We could not have come this far without the info we have obtained through DAN and through other parents.

I know not all DAN practitioners are created equal and that some of you have had negative experiences, but overall, I think DAN professionals are some of the best in health and medicine. I've learned more from DANs who I've never personally met than I ever have from a traditional pediatrician or medical doctor.

In the beginning of our journey, I thought expense and geography were 2 important factors in finding a DAN doc. In the end, I realized it was about believing in their expertise and being able to communicate with them as partners in the recovery process.

Okay, enough of my tangent. I'm never one to make a long story short. Happy Holidays to everyone and again, thank you for all of your help. I wish I had found this board two years ago. All of you have made a huge difference in my boys' lives.

Dana R.

rlneub
Posts: 1872
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 6:37 pm

Postby rlneub » Sun Dec 25, 2005 1:49 pm

most do not require residency training in their specialty


I do not know if above it true outside of Environmental Medicine, but in Environmental Medicine, the residency is in established fields.

Certification by any of the following suggests that a pracitioner is involved with dubious methods


is untrue for environmental medicine.

http://www.americanboardofenvironmental ... cation.htm

Winnie - what will you come up with next? To be honest, I am not sure if you have a beef against me or Jim or are trying to stir things up a bit. I know you found the quote on another board, but the wording is in a manner to suggest that Jim is not a "legitimate" doctor. This disturbs me that you seem to want to discredit him. I could be wrong, but your posts have seemed to be of the kind to discredit what people on this forum are trying to do. Up until the last post, I believed you were bringing these things up to inspire debate, of which I do not mind participating in, but to try to discredit the docs, that I have an issue with.

Please let me and the others on this board know the reason/motivation for your posting? I do not know you, but the "tone" of your posts seem to be Anti Biomed. I could be misreading you and if I am I do apologize. Posting does not show the body language or provide the back and forth exchange to get true understanding of a person. So far, my mental images is a person who tried BioMed and it did not perform to your expectations and so you are posting to let others know that it may not work in all cases. (This is my perception from reading and may not be accurate) And to be honest, it does not working in 100% of cases. But in our practice biomed works in 90% according to the parents, and yes there can be the placebo effect, but at least in the case of the shots, most parents are looking for a reason to stop the shots, so for 90% to want to continue does say something. If you have concerns about our practice, I would be more than willing to answer. To post to create fear and doubt in biomed does not have a place on this forum, after all the title for this forum is "Diet and Biomedical Treatments". The parents coming here are seeking answers biomedically. Debate is allowed, but to discredit the intent of the forum I believe is wrong.

MCA
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Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 9:21 pm

Postby MCA » Sun Dec 25, 2005 2:24 pm

I don't think we should try to shut down or silence opposing viewpoints. I was under a different impression about the purpose of this forum... I think this forum is for open and honest discussion and not just to give out information. If we all march in lock step, what if we're wrong? Even by Rick's data, 10% of kids don't respond to biomed, why shouldn't those voices be heard? Challenges are essential. The stakes are too high. Even the "anti-biomed" should be heard.

That being said, we are starting the MB12 shots next week, and I do believe in them, and am thankful for the guidance Rick is providing. I just get very, very nervous when we start trying to silence the challenges... what gives me more confidence is when the challenges can be silenced by the facts.

rlneub
Posts: 1872
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 6:37 pm

Postby rlneub » Sun Dec 25, 2005 2:27 pm

Not trying to silence. Trying to understand the motivation to put down the doctors. I am asking for her to explain why she is doing this. I am against censorship. I am for understanding. A better understanding of her position would allow those new to the forum to see the reasons she says what she says.

Please let me and the others on this board know the reason/motivation for your posting?


Also, the FACTS are not proven in a double blind placebo controlled study at this time. And in spite of 1,000s of parents saying the child regressed after a vaccine, mainstream medicine insists the parents have no facts. And again, in spite of 1,000s of kids doing better with chelation, mb12, hbot, supplements, diets etc, mainstream says Autism is completely genetic and there is no treatment, that is the FACT mainstream believes. I believe that parents know their kids better than the docs. If they see regression then something probably happened to cause it. If the see healing, then something is causing this. FACTS change as soon as another study comes out to show the prior FACT was in error. Before the Autism is Genetic belief of mainstream medicine, the FACT was Autism is cause by refridgerator moms. Would you have wanted to be a mom of an autistic during that time period?

Waiting for a new FACT to replace an old FACT is something many parents do not want to wait for. Which is why so many are doing BioMed before the FACT comes out. It is the parents right to seek help in whatever way they can. And as our videos cannot be considered FACT, but parents can see that there may be a grain of truth in them and have hope again that their child may oneday be recovered.

r's mom

Postby r's mom » Sun Dec 25, 2005 3:40 pm

WRT autism and causes and recovery, mainstream medicine say that it is genetic and dont accept that toxic insults to an immature immune system can be a cause of autism. Mainstream medicine will try to protect there own and are not open to a different way of thinking it seems to me until it is tried and tested and sweated by the pioneers. To recover my child NOW I cant go to my paed and hope that he will give me the tools to build my sons immune system, detox whatever needs to be detoxed etc - he had that chance for 3 years and watched my son getting worse and told me to give drugs and we will test for irregularities in swallowing when he was throwing up his food. In hindsight he had some very obvious signs and sensitivities. These include texture sensitivities, hyper, OCD behaviours, allergies, asthma, reflux, irrational tantrums, language issues, processing difficulties. The mainstream is in fact behind the times and will NOT recover our kids. With that said just because someone is not mainstream does not mean we can trust them. It has been said that the enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend. We DO need to be wary about who is treating our kids. I have said before that I am getting help for my son from a naturopath, and now an accupunturist, I'm not in the states. Where I am we dont have DAN!.
When my son was 2 he was getting molluscum warts (I now know that they are a sign of a very weak immune system) over a 6 month period my doctor said wait and they will go away, they were spreading all over my sons body, even starting on his face, a friend recommended this naturopath, said she has great results. After 3 days they looked inactive started to shrink after 5 weeks there was not a sign of them, I kept going and it has been a slow process but he is definitely recovering.

The pioneers who can help recover our kids dont have time to try and also change/infiltrate mainstream medicine, they only have limited time and that time is better spent on refining recovery process.

JMHO at this time.

kathleenjj
Posts: 487
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:09 am

Postby kathleenjj » Sun Dec 25, 2005 4:20 pm

First--to Jen. Welcome! I live in Lancaster County too. Please email me so we can talk a bit more!

In terms of finding a practitioner I will tell you what I wish I knew 2 years ago--this is in no small terms a life altering decision. Do not allow yourself to be hindered financially or geographically any more than necessity dictates. Now, I will tell you what I would do if my best friend had a child who was diagnosed--I would sit with her while she called to schedule an appointment with a practitioner from Dr. Neubrander's practice. My son is now a patient and I wish e had been all along. Ah, well, my mom was always fond of pointing out how useless it is to cry over spilt milk . . .

Best wishes and keep us posted! I would love to speak with you about local (Lancaster County) educational services.


Second, to comment on the issues that spun out from this one. Winnie, you have a right to raise questions and issues and to offer your opinion. But I am questioning your motives when you feel it necessary to point out that board certification in Environmental Medicine is "no tthe same". Why I ask did you feel the need to clarify that as you said? Unless you are trying to challenge some of our doctors? Do you have a DAN practitioner? Are you looking for one? If that is why, are you looking for guidance? I would truly like to help if you are interested in biomed but maybe you are not? I'd love to hear more about the interventions your kids are using.
Kathleen
Proud Mom

Guest

Postby Guest » Sun Dec 25, 2005 5:25 pm

Rick,

My post should not discredit anyone, it was simply clarification of ABMS Board Certification, which was the "board certification" being discussed on the thread. As I said in my post, I don't have any knowledge of the quality of medicine practiced by the doctors listed, board certified or not.

When a doctor lists a "board certified" credential, we lay people assume that refers to the American Board of Medical Specialties, and the rigorous process to become "board certified" by the ABMS. We are not generally aware that "boards" are independently established, granting members certification, and operating outside the realm of what we assumed was "board certification."

There are DAN! physicians with ABMS board certification. Many consumers/patients seek a ABMS board certified physican due to his advanced training, as the ABMS has very rigorous certification procedures. Dr. Neubrander gave his reasons for not pursuing ABMS certification:

Broadly speaking these tracts include chronic illnesses, allergy and immunology, toxicology, and nutritional biochemistry. These were my areas of interest and the reason that I decided not to spend the extra years necessary to become board certified as, let’s say, a pediatrician. Both would require thousands of hours and thousands of patient contacts before becoming truly proficient no matter whether one was granted “membership into an organization” by passing a board exam.


I might add here that ABMS does recognize specialties in Allergy and Immunology, Preventive Medicine (with a sub-specialty in Medical Toxicology), among others.

Rick, I found your explanation a little confusing:

The site http://abms.org/about.asp only lists the top 25 recognized boards. Jim tells me that are 125 recognized boards for specialties. Many of the docs you say are not Board Certified are certified in a specialty.


I think the confusion arises with the word "recognized," as a reader might mistakenly assume that the American Board of Enviromental Medicine might be "recognized" by the ABMS in the 125 you mentioned, therefore equal. The site lists like 24 ABMS specialty boards, some of these have sub-specialties, but the American Board of Environmental Medicine is not one of them. It is just a fact, not an attack.

This probably does not apply to the American (or International) Board of Environmental Medicine, but there are some rather "dubious" certification boards operating out there -- check out the American Board of Clinical Metal Toxicology. Dr. Buttar lists this as one of his credentials. Sounds really important, huh? Check out the credentialing requirements (not exactly, uh, rigorous):

http://www.abct.info/WebPage-Membership-HowToJoin.html

Membership of an ABCMT- or IBCMT-approved teaching organization. successfully passing the written examination offered by the ABCMT after completion of an approved workshop.

Successfully passing an oral examination administered by the examination committee of ABCMT. This examination consists of questions as to knowledge of Chelation Therapy and review of six patients charts


Oops, I digress.

Anyway, I am not putting down any doctors, DAN!, board certified, not certified, or otherwise. Dr. Neubrander seems to have a very positive parent following, and the videos are impressive. Parents try to carefully choose the physicians treating their children, and need a lot of informtion to make important decisions.

Oddly enough, the only "putting down" of doctors on this thread seemingly occurred in the sermon by Dr. Neubrander:

Look at the lack of knowledge your “board certified doctor” has about nutrition, heavy metal toxicity, and the issues in general. They are good people who are following their paradigm but is their paradigm helping your child today before it’s too late and your child is too old? Look at whether or not your “board certified doctors” validate or invalidate you or hide behind not having to have read the available literature and come to their own conclusions – ones often 180 degrees from those they now have – instead of saying the angering phrase, “There’s no proof.”


Winnie - what will you come up with next?


Hmmm, probably questions. :wink:

Winnie

Guest

Picking a DAN doctor

Postby Guest » Sun Dec 25, 2005 6:24 pm

For us, we started with geography and made appointments with two DAN doctors within two-hours drive. We talked to parents who had used both of them extensively. We picked the doctor whose approach fit best with us, and who had had the most positive reports from other parents. Both DAN docs were board certified in pediatrics, though that's not the reason I'm taking my son there. He continues to see a regular, non-DAN pediatrician for routine medical care, physicals, sick visits, and so on.

If you're interested in the DAN protocol, then you can read the DAN papers on the DAN web site, and make sure your DAN doctor has been to recent DAN conferences. (Just ask him/her). I did call one doctor on the DAN list who happens to have excellent credentials, but who doesn't do many of the recommended treatments on the DAN protocol. So, we didn't bother to make an appointment there.

kathleenjj
Posts: 487
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:09 am

Postby kathleenjj » Sun Dec 25, 2005 8:19 pm

Winnie

I am disgusted by your lack of respect for people who have done NOTHING but offer help. Dr Jim Neubrander and Rick Neubrander specifically. And you are insulting some of these doctors, specifically Dr. Buttar by mocking one of his credentials and Dr. N by your statement.

I wish your children well and long happy lives. I will not respond to your posts in the future as I am only interested in helping, being helped by and enjoying those dedicated to our kids.
Kathleen

Proud Mom

Guest

Postby Guest » Sun Dec 25, 2005 9:33 pm

I am disgusted by your lack of respect for people who have done NOTHING but offer help. Dr Jim Neubrander and Rick Neubrander specifically. And you are insulting some of these doctors, specifically Dr. Buttar by mocking one of his credentials and Dr. N by your statement.


Kathleen,

The posts in this thread to which I responded pertained to ABMS board certification (I did not start this discussion - nor bring up the board certification issue). The information I posted is factual and verifiable. I did not invent the credentials or make the rules, I just reported and clarified these. If you have information to correct what I posted, please do post a rebuttal with the accurate information.

I never commented on the competency of any doctor. I'm sure that there are many dedicated non-ABMS board certified physicians, just as there are board certified physicians who are not so wonderful. I did not criticize Dr. Buttar, but did question the American Board of Clinical Metal Toxicology. Perhaps it is just a coincidence that this sounds so similar to the ABMS's sub-specialty American Board of Medical Toxicology. Nonetheless, by all means, don't take my word for it, print the material from the link, take it to your own trusted health care provider, and ask how it compares to ABMS standards.

As far as respect goes, we should check credentials, references, and learn to ask questions of anyone treating our children. We would not think this disrespectful if we were hiring an employee of any sort. These are service providers who make a living treating our children. They are just people...not the Pope...and this is treatment...not a religion.

I'm not sure that Dr. Neubrander's ABMS Board Certified colleagues felt especially "respected" in his post, though I would defend to the teeth his right to state his opinion -- its a forum!

Winnie

mama23miracles
Posts: 312
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 5:48 pm

Postby mama23miracles » Sun Dec 25, 2005 10:02 pm

Thanks to all who replied to my original post. I did not in any way mean to open a can of worms. I appreciate all of the responses and appreciate everyone's honesty. I am seriously looking into making a phone call soon...I think DAN is definitely in our future. Thanks again!
Jen
Jen (mom to Zach - 5 yo with mild/moderate autism and Dylan & Drew - 3 yo twins with PDD-NOS


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