check this out.. rates of autism 1994 -2005 U.S. wide

Discuss autism theories, media stories, and efforts to put ASD on the government agenda here.

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ASD parent

Postby ASD parent » Sat Mar 18, 2006 3:30 am

I cant believe we are still on this topic. Can't we all agree to disagree, I mean each situation is diferent so treatment may be diffrent. I have 2 autistic children, first child maybe it was the shots, second child was born with autism it wasnot shots. Example If two people were to have a stroke they may be given diferent medications and treatment opptions based one the severity of there condition and what caused the stroke. Nobody would expect them to be treated the same. And how about cancer how many types are there? lots are they all treated the same obviously not, there is chemo, radiation, surgery, naturall remadies to name a few. I feel the same can be said for Autisim. Not all autistics are alike obviously more sever on the spectrum would mean more treatment than less sever cases. Yes some Autistic children are not getting the treatment best suited to help them. But I would never tell a parent there is only one way to treat Autism as I belive we need to try diffrent treatments to find what works for our own children. I am not talking about some unproven hoax. I mean real treatments other parents have tried such as ABA ,biomed, diets excetra. We should be encouraging parents if one thing dosent work then maybe a diffferent approach will. Imagine if you had never tried the treatment you are currently doing because another parent tried it and was dead against it as it did not work for there child. upon hearing there story you may have never have tried that treatment and where would you and your child be today with out it. Think about it many of us may be right in our treatment choice when looking at the results on our own children not others. Each of our children may have Autism or be on the spectrum but they are still unique individuals Autisim or not. ASD Parent

dgdavis64
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Postby dgdavis64 » Sat Mar 18, 2006 11:32 am

Winnie wrote:
" Thats what I'm talking about. I'm not denying that your child did indeed excrete metals. We just don't know to what extent any NT child would also excrete given the same treatment. I have often wondered what results would be returned on a healthy, NT child under the same procedure/test kit, especially if autism was indicated anywhere on the test submission. Food for thought, anyway."

This isn't making any sense to me. From what I understand, the hair test results from a NT child would indicate the child was excreting metals normally (unless they had a recent exposure elevating the levels.) But the hair test results from an autistic child would indicate extremely low levels meaning they have a problem excreting the metals. The extremely low levels of excretion was what threw Drs. off early on in the autism/mercury/chelation situation from what I understand. Why would you give a NT child a chelator if they're excreting metals properly?

In our case, I did a hair test on my son before he was officially diagnosed. I started chelating him long before taking him to a DAN Dr. But the information I provided on the hair test about my son was only his age. There was no mention of any neurological disorder so I don't no why the results would be untrustworthy.


Winnie wrote:
"We also don't know if excreting metals is actually "reversing" autism."


I can only give our experience on this. My kids recovery has been recorded on video. I take them to the university for supplemental speech therapy 2X a week and their 30 min. sessions are videotaped. At the beginning of the fall semester (05,) you would've thought these were 2 different kids from the way they behaved during the summer semester. The director came to me after the first visit and asked "what have you been doing with them?" It was amazing to see the change in them. And it's all on video so it's not just my wishful thinking. they keep improving with every round of DMSA we do so in our case, I'd say we are "reversing" their autism.

Winnie wrote:
"This precisely demonstrates the problem I have with high-profile persons passing clearly biased information to parents and remaining unchallenged."


To whom are you referring here? Maybe a pediatrician talking a parent into unwanted/unneeded vaccines?


Winnie wrote:
" Many parents just blindly accept whatever Erik (or any high-profile camp for that matter) tells them to believe, and though they claim to be "open-minded," many parents never actually check facts or read anything inconsistent with what they want to believe. Instead they just repeat whatever the "leader" tells them they should believe, and insist that anyone who questions the party line is evil and ignorant."

I hope you're not including me in this group since I research EVERYTHING I do for my kids and most other parents here do too. That's why we're on this board to talk and discuss these things.
But you, and BTDT are doing the same thing we're doing when it comes to getting information. We're searching the internet reading/looking/learning and whose to say your information is more believable/true than mine?
Following blindly lead me to vaccinate my kids. I'll never do that again.
This is true of many of the parents here.


I can only say that my son is no longer running around flapping his hands, screeching at the top of his lungs, banging his head and many more numerous things he used to do.


As for the decline/increase in CA, time will definately tell.


There are pockets of the population in the US that remain unvaccinated, Amish and various others. How do you explain the discrepancies in the rates of autism that doesn't exist in their communities?


Winnie wrote:
"Diane, you may have gotten a little more answer than you bargained for, but I'm interested in your answer "for that" too.



It's funny you should say this,
I ALWAYS get more than I bargained for, it seems to be my life's mantra.

Beware of the pharma trollbot shills posting from anonymous proxy servers

Guest

Postby Guest » Sat Mar 18, 2006 12:26 pm

OMG, over 100 posts on this thread ! I feel like such an (mild expletive deleted), I keep trying to do what HTRTC suggested, which is use my head to grasp the "obvious conclusions to glaring facts" (thanks for the tip, BTW) , even go back to basic science (like Erik suggested on another thread) and I still don't know what caused my child's autism. I must be really dense, and frankly, I'm a little jealous of the people who have seen the light, while I'm still asking questions.
I won't clog up the thread any further with all of them, since they usually go unanswered, and hey, they went unanswered by a high-profile DAN! doc who speaks at national meetings as well (LM, I think our DAN!'s went to the same training, BTW). Just wanted to comment on a few things that caught my eye.
Note: I do believe that children may have adverse reactions to vaccines, that kids can and do improve with biomedical treatments, and that mercury or other heavy metals have no place in anyone's body, let alone a newborn. I don't think anyone here, Winnie or LM or anyone else is contending that fact.
What I see is that some people (myself included) are questioning sweeping generalizations of the kind made by Erik (and others, sorry can't remember all posts) that all autism is mercury/vax related. I'm speaking as a mom, who has corrected mineral imbalances, has addressed "viral issues", has chelated the daylights out of my son, plus various other interventions (some of which I'm not proud of, but I felt I should try them anyways) for 3 years. Who has read 2 DAN! manuals cover to cover, has consulted with 3 DAN! docs (2 of them known nation wide), has gone back to biochemistry 101 and has tried to really understand what is going on. That's just to say that I think I've beyond proven my open-mindedness on the biomed front (in case I would be tossed out to the "neurodiverse crowd").
My son is a different child from when we started, there is no question about it. And he is improving every day. NOT from biomed. As his mom, please take my word for it. If I had left it up to chelation, and biomed alone, he would have still been deep in autieland. With all his progress, I wouldn't call him "recovering" simply because that would imply that his endpoint is normality. I would call him "improving".
I wonder how the mercury theory explains the nonresponders. Other than "wrong protocol".

Also a comment on the lab testing. I think what Winnie is referring to is how are normals established exactly. Diane, I see your point. We did the same tests with Alex. One thing that bugs me, though, is that in the post-challenge tests (we did several) we see how elevated our kids' levels are. But are those normal ranges given by the lab established in DMSA challenged NT's? Or are they measured in non-challenged people (in which case we are comparing apples and oranges). What if anyone's levels would go up after challenge with DMSA, autistic/poisoned or not? Has anyone challenged their NT kids with DMSA?

There are definitely egos in the DAN! field , no questions. I remember at the DAN! I attended 2 years ago, Dr. McC said that she no longer used DesPlaines because she "didn't like Dr. Shaw" (?!?!?)- I don't know if this is still the case. I can not begin to say on how many levels that kind of statement bothers me. Just to give a tiny example. There is no question in my mind that there are people making money off ordering these mega batteries of tests. Which is totally OK, if it would help our kids, or if they were really necessary.

I guess you could say I'm "autism diverse". I believe in the individuality that every child with autism has. Diane's story is not Erik's story is not Winnie's story and is not mine either, I bet. I would never in a million years begin to guess what caused someone's child's autism. Why do other people presume to KNOW what caused my child's autism and reject any other opinion or question?

Alex's mom

sashasmom
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Postby sashasmom » Sat Mar 18, 2006 12:41 pm

My DAN! doctor prefers to not use Great Plains as well and he did comment that Dr. Shaw was a "crook". However his opinion was not b/c of altered test or whatever. He's reason was b/c GPL only does very few test themselves and contracts just about lal other tests through other labs. They don't preform any of their metals test; they send them all to Doctor's Data lab. And their Food Allergy and several other test are done through US BioTek Lab. He said that he charges double what the labs should cost and parents who don't know that GPL contracts most labs don't know that they can go directly through the other lab and it be $100 cheaper. However they take our insurance and all labs are covered at 100% so he allows us to use GPL for that reason. BCBS has an allowed amount that is really cheap. GPL charges parents $150 for their celiac disease test and my insurance paid $14.50 to them for the test and they have to write the rest off.

-Crystal

Elis mom
Posts: 55
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 11:04 am

Postby Elis mom » Sat Mar 18, 2006 1:09 pm

Wow. Such anger and vehemence and certaninty from so many areas. I don't know where to turn.
Truly, this is a disturbing thread. We ALL have children on the spectrum. I don't KNOW what caused my son's autism, though I suspect a genetic link. I had four children with a different father than my affected son, and this child's first cousin on his father's side was recently (tentatively) diagnosed as well.
There is a lot of anger here, though I don't believe it to be directed productively. I agree with the posters who try to keep an open mind to theories as to the cause(s) of their kids' autism, but not become slaves to them. If you are angry, get a punching bag, but don't use another parent as such.
When my son was first diagnosed, I was so angry and upset that I grasped ANY theory as a lifeline. I considered the possibility that thimerasol in his vaccines was to blame, until I learned that our clinic already used thimerasol-free vaccines. So that was out the window. There MAY have been thimerasol in one or two of the vaccines received at the public health clinic, but certainly not enough to poison him to the extent that he has autism. At any rate, he is what he is, and I am trying to use my energy to help him behave in a near-normal fashion. We have been very fortunate that his autism is mild to moderate and not severe, so that undoubtably factors in his progress. Notice that I did not say recovery--I said PROGRESS. I think this has actually been key to our success with him--we don't expect miracles, and certainly not overnight cures.
To me, it doesn't really matter what caused Eli's autism, what matters is his future. I will continue to keep an open mind with regards to the "thimerasol is the cause" camp, but I believe that it was NOT the cause of my son's problems. The remedy to his problems is what is most important now. We have tried the dairy-free route, with mixed results, and I'm abandoning it. We haven't tried a lot of the biomed interventions because I don't trust a lot of them any more than I trust mercury in vaccines. How does ANYONE KNOW what longterm effects will come from all those supplements and MB12 shots? I plead ignorance, as most of us should.
What I am NOT ignorant about is my own son's progress without the use of supplements, dietary changes, or MB 12. One thing we have used successfully is melatonin, 2 mg each night, so that he will sleep a little more soundly. I researched it thoroughly and consulted with our pediatrician and a natural healer before I began its use, and it's the one thing that has helped in the area of sleep.
The other thing that has really helped is his amazing teachers at his preschool. He would not be where he is today without their help and love for my child. Honestly, I have been a parent for 19 years, to five different kids, and I had to learn brand-new parenting skills for this one child. I felt like a novice at first, but I have become more adept with him, and it has made me a better mother in the long run.
So back to the original post regarding the rates of autism. All it really shows is the diagnosed cases increasing. It does NOT show that thimerasol is to blame, though one may interpret data any way one chooses. Whether it is thimerasol, other environmental factors, genetic links, or just absolute chance matters naught. What really matters is that you do the absolute best you can for your child, but please don't judge what someone else does for their own. And please, please, please people--keep an OPEN mind and check your hostilities at the door.
Thanks to all the parents who are already doing just that.

littlebopeep
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Postby littlebopeep » Sat Mar 18, 2006 1:46 pm

Thanks for your post, Eli's Mom.

Guest

Postby Guest » Sat Mar 18, 2006 2:20 pm

Has anyone here ever read Socrates Plato? If so, you will understand the reference to this thread.

respect

Guest

Postby Guest » Sat Mar 18, 2006 2:46 pm

Eli's Mom,

Although you sound non-judgmental as well as sincere in your belief that we should all "keep an open mind", the tone and slant of most posters reflect each individual's personal bias as to what in all probability, caused THEIR particular child's autism. It seems to me that the empirical is guiding every individual poster's own personal belief systems with respect to the cause of autism. This is unavoidable and very warranted.

Try as we might, a parent of a typical toddler who bore witness to their child's inexplicable regression while WISHING and perhaps BELIEVING to rationally keep an open mind, will maintain and reflect, if not openly, a bias towards "recovery'-oriented approaches like DAN, diets, and other biomedical and ABA, RDI, Floortime treatments.

On the other hand, a parent who suspects infantile autism, remembers "subtle" signs very early on, will reflect a bias about, and in some cases, open hostility to those who advocate recovery over "acceptance". Fanatical accusations of "demonizing" our children by fulfilling our moral and legal obligations in seeking to minimize any dysfunction abound and it is causing strife.

With good reason.

This forum is nothing more than a microcosm of what is actually happening on a larger scale, outside this cyber world and I welcome it. It makes me think and personally bolsters my own beliefs. It should be reflective of the division that exists in real time.

There are no "sweeping generalizations" on this board Alex's Mom, "Winnie", LM, BTDT, et al. You all know better than that. I for one have ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM accepting that mercury or vaxes were NOT the cause of your children's condition. In your cases. No argument there.


In all fairness, if I knew deep down in my heart of hearts that there was no hope for my child's condition because its cause was purely genetic, I would be up front and center, spouting "anti-cure" rhetoric too.

I do understand the denouncement of DANs and other profiteers, but it is significant that Alex's Mom, "Winnie" and BTDT and others on this thread(with various degrees of conviction) who have already implied the possiblilty of a strong genetic component in their individual cases take the stance they do. It is curious to me why these probable genetic cases are the most adamant, the most "vocal" anti-biomed, anti-cure.

For those of us who believe that vaxes were the cause, why do you all seem to be trying to dash the hopes of ordinary parents who hold the belief that while there may never be a cure for THOSE OF OUR CHILDREN WHO ARE MEDICALLY ILL, that there is hope that it can be managed medically MUCH LIKE ANY OTHER DISEASE?

Isn't that essentially the purpose of biomed?

The abovementioned may state the "need to keep an open mind" while spending an inordinate amount of time refuting plausible theories that mercury or vaxes cause autism. More like a lawyer preparing a brief or a spin doctor than a parent of a special needs children just trying to tread water. I bet most of us would envy that much free time. Your contention, Winnie is that plausible is not definitive of course. We would all probably agree that this is a given.

For my money, plausible is an excellent starting point cause where there is smoke, there's fire.

HTRTC

BTDT
Posts: 3492
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Postby BTDT » Sat Mar 18, 2006 3:35 pm

HTRTC,

There are no "sweeping generalizations" on this board Alex's Mom, "Winnie", LM, BTDT, et al. You all know better than that. I for one have ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM accepting that mercury or vaxes were NOT the cause of your children's condition. In your cases. No argument there.


I am glad to hear you say that you have no problem accepting that mercury/vaxes are not the cause of my child's condition. But there are others on this board, and elsewhere in the autism community, Generation Rescue comes to mind, that are saying autism is mercury poisoning. These are the kind of sweeping generalizations that I have a problem with.

In all fairness, if I knew deep down in my heart of hearts that there was no hope for my child's condition because its cause was purely genetic, I would be up front and center, spouting "anti-cure" rhetoric too.


I don't know anything about what caused my child's autism, there are many things that lead me to believe that genetics is largely responsible. However, I am definitely not against curing autism, helping autism, and I am especially not against finding out what exactly did cause my son's autism. And I'm not sure why there is a belief out there that if a condition is purely genetic, which I really don't think autism is, that means there will never be any treatment for it.

It is curious to me why these probable genetic cases are the most adamant, the most "vocal" anti-biomed, anti-cure.


Again, I am not anti-cure, and I am not even anti-biomed. I have used many biomed treatments in the past, and in fact continue to use them. There was even a point in time when I was considering chelation, but got sidetracked with a seizure issue, and after resolution of that issue, I no longer felt it was appropriate for my son.

Although, I do understand their point, I am not "neurodiverse". I do think there should be more understanding of those who are different, however I also think we should be looking for ways to help those who are disabled become independent. My son is severely disabled, I have accepted that, but that does not mean I am not interested in treatments and therapies to help him improve.

I think we are all right to question vaccines, and question other conventional ideas about autism. However, I think we need to really question the alternative/DAN practitioners as well. I don't think we need to take anything at face value. We need to read the actual studies in the journals, look at BOTH sides of the issues. I think there is a lot that bears looking at on both sides. We don't need to step out of the frying pan and into the fire.

Elis mom
Posts: 55
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 11:04 am

Postby Elis mom » Sat Mar 18, 2006 3:45 pm

HTRTC
For the record-
I am not spouting anti-cure rhetoric. There is currently no known cure for autism. I believe that a lot of biomedical interventions may alleviate the SYMPTOMS, but they do not cure the autism. It's still there at the end of the day.
Also, for the record, I do not KNOW in my heart of hearts, that my son's autism has a genetic link, I merely SUSPECT it, just as others suspect other causes. For all I know, it WAS thimerasol related, but I doubt it in MY child's case.
You kind of missed my point, I'm afraid.
I am not anit-cure. I am not anti-biomed. I am simply skeptical, as any responsible person is, of unproven theories and opinions about cause and effect.
My "tone" is skepticism--not "anti."
Don't you get it? Our kids have autism--the whys and wherefores just don't matter that much. Parents of kids with non-genetically linked illnesses cannot always determine exactly why their child got sick. Of course there are exceptions--remember the kids who all got leukemia due to their proximity to WRGrace? There was a finger you could point with absolute conviction (after a huge lawsuit), and those families got a huge monetary compensation for their suffering. More power to them.
It just seems that if we disagree with some posters' belief that autism is caused by thimerasol, then we are branded idiots, blinded by propaganda, and dooming thousands of children, etc. Maybe we just don't know for certain, and admit that we don't know for certain. Maybe I am just less likely to believe everything I hear and see until all the facts are truly in.
I don't like being told I am stupid or judgemental simply because I disagree. My child's autism is every bit as real as another person's child's, whether it was caused by thimerasol, food additives, amalgam fillings in my teeth, meds I took when I was pregnant, genetics, or my negligence to wear an aluminum foil hat when I was pregnant. It is a daily struggle and we are all doing the best we can. I respect your opinions and I expect the same. But remember, opinion is not fact.

Guest

Postby Guest » Sat Mar 18, 2006 5:05 pm

I DID get your original point. On the contrary, your post seemed about acceptance, motherly, unconditional love. The "whys" don't seem to matter to you. Not addressed to you, esp. comment about anti-cure rhetoric.

HTRTC

Guest

Postby Guest » Sat Mar 18, 2006 5:17 pm

EM, previous post addressed to you. One very strong objection to your subsequent post is that the "whys" ABSLUTELY DO MATTER.

No child, no parent should have to suffer the way we do if it is at all preventable. I believe that we owe it to future generations to get to the root cause of this epidemic.



HTRTC

Guest

Postby Guest » Sat Mar 18, 2006 5:23 pm

I for one have ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM accepting that mercury or vaxes were NOT the cause of your children's condition. In your cases. No argument there.


Thank you , HTRTC. That took a while :wink:

This forum is nothing more than a microcosm of what is actually happening on a larger scale


Um....not so sure about that, if you are referring to the ASD community at large. There is a HUGE bias towards biomedical interventions on this forum. It's actually referenced on Dr. N's website as well (how many forums are?). Not a bad thing, many other forums have a bias and therefore attract people who subscribe to that specific philosophy. There are many parents who left this forum because there seemed to be a party line emerging. I myself have posted here 3 years ago and having posted on and off since, got a chance to see the board dynamics change.
I guess what I'm saying is that a biomed oriented parent will favor this board whereas a say ABA oriented parent may not necessarily keep coming back here.

It is curious to me why these probable genetic cases are the most adamant, the most "vocal" anti-biomed, anti-cure


HTRTC, I would love to satisfy your curiosity. I'm having a hard time finding anything in my posts that would qualify me as anti-biomed or anti-cure. With all due respect, if after reading my posts you consider me anti-biomed and anti-cure, then either I am having serious difficulties expressing myself (bear with me here, English is not my first language), or you haven't been reading too carefully (at > 100 posts per thread, can't really blame you either :wink: ). Does the description of what I've done so far with Alex sound like what an anti-biomed person would do ? In fact, I think it offers me a pretty good vantage point. Why would I be anti-anything that could help autism? That doesn't make much sense, unless you consider me to be a bad person and a bad mother.
I've simply pointed out, that what helps one child may not work for another, that there are discrepancies in the DAN! approach, and that one shouldn't generalize just from their own child's experience (sorry to say, but happens a lot). I am all for cure if one exists, I just have a problem with the way some biomed circles flaunt and define the concept of "cure" - but that's a whole different discussion and I don't believe it even came up here. If this is too much for anyone to handle without getting personal, then I think it just shows how stressed out we all are.

The abovementioned may state the "need to keep an open mind" while spending an inordinate amount of time refuting plausible theories that mercury or vaxes cause autism. More like a lawyer preparing a brief or a spin doctor than a parent of a special needs children just trying to tread water. I bet most of us would envy that much free time


This is a sample of a part that I for one, would leave out if I were you (and I bet most of us would too). Sometimes it helps to hit the brakes, even if you haven't really said everything that's on your mind. Here is where you get personal and go off on a (slightly inappropriate) tangent. If it makes you feel better, go ahead, but frankly, I can't see how statements like these will increase the value of what you are trying to say. I give you the "free time" though, I'm sure we all could put our time to better use.

Alex's mom

Guest

Postby Guest » Sat Mar 18, 2006 6:03 pm

Alex's Mom,

Have the strength of your convictions. It is very difficult to address your statements as you waffle so much. You see, it is all about perspective.

You find me rude and sarcastic and have no qualms stating as such for some time while at the same time admonishing me for "speaking" my mind. I find this hypocritical.

This is no SUDDEN revelation about you and a strong genetic component, far from it. I have been reading many of your posts for over a year now and am always amazed by your autistic like tunnel vision, and inability to think out of the box. That's just for starters. You talk about towing the party line when it seems to me that it is you who is the first to come to the defense of anything that suggests that this may be a condition caused by your profession. For these two reasons I always read your posts with a grain of salt.

As far as my suggesting you are a bad person?! or a bad mother?! you may be projecting. I haven't given you or anyone else on this board that much thought to arrive at such a conclusion, merely have strong feelings about the CONTENT of the posts. I "virtually" am unable to take it personal. There is not enough personal interaction to do so.

HTRTC

[/b]

Elis mom
Posts: 55
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 11:04 am

Postby Elis mom » Sat Mar 18, 2006 6:22 pm

HTRTC-
You're right, and I stand corrected. If there is a cause of autism that is preventable, then it should by all means be prevented. I don't want to sound insensitive to people that are going through the same pain as me and my family.
We just don't know what causes autism in every case just yet. Personally, I would like to see more recognition of this disorder at a national level. There is the Labor Day telethon for MDA every year that raises literally millions of dollars for a crippling, tragic disease. Autism (probably) affects far more kids than Muscular Dystrophy, but we have very little fundraising going toward research of causes and possible cures.
Can't we do better than the occasional walk-a-thon?
Rather than focusing our energies on all this bickering back and forth, let's focus on getting some help from media, celebrities, whoever can help. Somebody call Oprah!!!!

Winnie
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Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 2:48 pm

Postby Winnie » Sat Mar 18, 2006 6:24 pm

There are no "sweeping generalizations" on this board Alex's Mom, "Winnie", LM, BTDT, et al


Um, did you actually read the thread or just jump in later? These have been pointed out and quoted all along this thread.

I do understand the denouncement of DANs and other profiteers, but it is significant that Alex's Mom, "Winnie" and BTDT and others on this thread(with various degrees of conviction) who have already implied the possiblilty of a strong genetic component in their individual cases take the stance they do. It is curious to me why these probable genetic cases are the most adamant, the most "vocal" anti-biomed, anti-cure.


I have never said that my child's autism is genetic. Don't even recall discussing it actually. For the record, I do think that a genetic link/predisposition is plausible, but certainly I don't KNOW that. There may even be different etiologies for different subtypes. I am not anti-biomed, I am anti-psuedo treatment and quackery. I have never been anti-cure (I just don't happen to believe that chelation is the cure, based on the theoritical underpinnings and evidence at the moment). Unfortunately some of the treatments and products promoted on this board may be a lot closer to alt-med quackery than "biomed."

Please show me where this is true of any of the posters you are accusing. When you make such accusations it is apparent that you have not even read the thread, and are only jumping in to insult people you have designated "non-believers."

For those of us who believe that vaxes were the cause, why do you all seem to be trying to dash the hopes of ordinary parents


Not trying to dash any hope for any parent -- I am one. However, I do KNOW of children that have been "recovered" before the existence of the Gen Rescue cult, in spite of what Erik or any other high-profile mouthpiece is telling you. I'm all about hope -- but if parents are persuaded to choose a treatment based on faulty theory, and then expect a cure, they may pass on other treatments that may have helped their child along the way.

This forum is nothing more than a microcosm of what is actually happening on a larger scale, outside this cyber world and I welcome it.


Honestly, I haven't found this board to be a microcosm. It is sometimes more a bubble of like-thinkers reinforcing each other's common beliefs and driving away any threat to the belief system of the clan. There are even well-known areas of biomed that are never even mentioned on this board.

More like a lawyer preparing a brief or a spin doctor than a parent of a special needs children just trying to tread water.


After you have dealt with autism for a few more years (in the event your child is not cured soon) -- you will probably feel like a lawyer, doctor, advocate, therapist, teacher, researcher, etc. -- all while you are treading water. You may even become somewhat less invested in ranting about the cause (it happens -- there are many learning curves in many areas for parents to conquer, and the cause may become somewhat less important to you than the bigger picture for your individual child).

Questioning one's own ideas is what greases the wheels of the research -- after all, why would we need to research an idea that we already KNOW to be true? I'm all for more research -- but I have developed an appreciation over the years for the complexity of autism, and how little we actually do KNOW.

I bet most of us would envy that much free time.


Right...only the people questioning your beliefs have too much time on their hands. Their posts are an utter waste of time. You won't see any prolific posting or time wasted by any other posters on this board :lol:
Winnie
"Make it a powerful memory, the happiest you can remember."

Guest

Postby Guest » Sat Mar 18, 2006 6:46 pm

HTRTC I believe it was me who said I often found you rude and childish, not Alex's Mom. I respect you for your intelligence and for all that you are doing to help your son. No, I am not a psychologist, and certainly have problems of my own, but I feel you get too angry and too much on the defensive of your beliefs, belittling those who don't agree. Sarcasm doesn't help any of us on this horrible journey!

We all get frustrated and broken. I just really want this board to keep going with your beliefs and those of all the wonderful people on this board. I think we can disagree for sure but allow each other to be heard. I just want to find how to get my son better and NEED the input of all of you to try in my own despair to figure the way.

Mary (other one)

Guest

Postby Guest » Sat Mar 18, 2006 7:09 pm

I have never said that my child's autism is genetic


Oops, sorry Winnie. Mea culpa. How could I possibly have gotten you confused with Autism Diva or Orca something or other?

Not to imply that you all are non-descript BTW, just that you all are starting to blend together. :oops:

I guess one propagandists is just as good/bad as the next. Interchangeable even with your crown-wearing, the-emperor-has-no-clothers exposing, cult-bustin', witch-hunting, daunting superhero(ine)/noblesse oblige responsibilities of fighing the combined, evil forces of DAN, Genex, ARI, Erik's Fair Autism Media and others in your crosshairs. Not to mention creating a new world order that would make society as a whole conform to the autists as opposed to - dare I say - autistics conforming to society.

Not that I am accusing you of perserveration or anything but aren't you exhausted or feel burdened by your superpowers and/or rank as well as your sideline as arbitor and Inspector General of autism quackery?

HTRTC

Winnie
Posts: 4227
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 2:48 pm

Postby Winnie » Sat Mar 18, 2006 7:37 pm

HTRTC wrote:

I have been reading many of your posts for over a year now and am always amazed by your autistic like tunnel vision, and inability to think out of the box. That's just for starters. You talk about towing the party line when it seems to me that it is you who is the first to come to the defense of anything that suggests that this may be a condition caused by your profession. For these two reasons I always read your posts with a grain of salt.


Whoa...I noticed a poster describe HTRTC as "cheeky," but thats not the feeling I get from such a personal attack on Alex's mom.

Frankly, Alex's Mom seems to be one of the more experienced parents on this board and has her feet objectively planted in all camps. I think we can all learn from her experiences, expertise, and education. And her posts I've read always seem polite and balanced.

Just goes to show what happens if you don't blindly tow the party line. Thanks, HTRTC, for clearly illustrating that point.

Oops, sorry Winnie. Mea culpa. How could I possibly have gotten you confused with Autism Diva or Orca something or other?


Geez girl, you might wanna take a break here. That was quite a ramble. I'm not even sure what you said, but I will resist the urge to retaliate and sink to name-calling. :)
Winnie
"Make it a powerful memory, the happiest you can remember."

Guest

Postby Guest » Sat Mar 18, 2006 7:58 pm

I left out tag-teaming.

HTRTC


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