check this out.. rates of autism 1994 -2005 U.S. wide

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momtoMatthew
Posts: 813
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2005 5:47 pm

Postby momtoMatthew » Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:33 pm

Vanessa I'm sorry if you don't believe me, but it IS the truth. I have read many posts from parents that state that dr's gave their child the ASD dx even though they thought the child only had a language delay in order for the child to receive services.

Personally my son was dx'd with pdd/nos and now that dx has been removed and the language delay added. However, I believe this to be wrong and that he is indeed pdd/nos. In our case the label doesn't matter as he gets the same services now as he did before.

My point is that in order for ASD rates to be correct dr's need to only give the correct diagnosis of the child. Not give an ASD dx for services sake.

Also obviously a dr isn't going to tell the state "oh well you know I just gave him that dx in order to get more services", they give the dx and thats that. It isn't like their is a group of people who go around making sure dr's are giving the right dx's to the right kids.

And again I will tell you that I am NOT denying a link to mercury. I do believe that mercury has a role along with alot of other environmental hazards. I was just pointing out that the rising statistics COULD also be based on false information ALONG with vaccines/mercury.

Guest

Postby Guest » Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:14 pm

I don't understand, why does this have to be an either/ or issue? I think the numbers are pretty compelling and it's likely that the numbers did indeed go up substantially. However there is no denying that the diagnosis has been refined, other categories (besides "classical" autism, like PDD NOS and Asperger) have been included. The same has probably happened with ADD as well, I can't imagine any of us not recalling a classmate who was just a "wild" kid, every teacher's nightmare, yet nobody back then was on Ritalin or labeled ADD. When I was in school I worked a summer in an institution for handicapped children, and I distinctly recall head banging and rocking from nonverbal teens labeled as "MR" and placed there. That could have been my son 22 years ago.
How much of the increase is real, how much is due to reporting variances, how much is due to better diagnosis, anyone's guess. I believe there is a real increase, but I don't think it's as spectacular as these percentages indicate. Still any increase is worrisome and needs looking into.
As to why the increase- I have no idea. I agree with Winnie about it being best to avoid statements like "definitely mercury"- it doesn't help, even though it's a catchy statement. Nothing is definite, the information Erik is referencing is presented in detail in the EOH book which I've read cover to cover. It does NOT prove that mercury causes autism. All it does is present a plausible association and makes a compelling argument for the fact that we probably will never have good studies, because the CDC and other high powered public health officials were scared out of their minds to look, for fear of what they might find. But that doesn't prove cause and effect. What about the non-vaccinated ASD kids, the chelation non-responders, the pre-vaccine era autistics etc?
I wish I had the certainty of knowing what caused my son's autism like some of the posters on this board have. For us, I have honestly no idea. All I could come up with was bad luck :( . I am not dismissing the vaccines as a potential factor, not at all, mercury has no place in a child's body, just common sense, but I think we should keep an open mind that maybe all the answers aren't out yet.
Alex's mom

Guest

Postby Guest » Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:14 pm

well saide Ruth

Guest

Postby Guest » Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:17 pm

Alexs mom well saide allso

Guest

Postby Guest » Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:24 pm

I still really want to know how this diagnosis gives extra help. The doctors we have dealt with say they cannot use (Number ??? - for autism) or the treatment will not be covered. Could someone please tell me how we can obtain services with an autism diagnosis. We really need the help because this has not been our experience.

Thank you.

momtoMatthew
Posts: 813
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2005 5:47 pm

Postby momtoMatthew » Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:27 pm

We aren't talking about services through insurance. You are right in saying that insurance will not give coverage if they are told the child has autism. :x

We are talking about government funding...in our state it is called early intervention. Or even school services sometimes give better programs if your child is dx'd autism as opposed to language delayed or something similar.

Guest

Postby Guest » Sat Mar 11, 2006 12:07 am

Thank you Grace. We are just entering that phase. So far we haven't gotten anything really great but we are hoping things will improve.

Guest

Postby Guest » Sat Mar 11, 2006 12:26 am

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand, why does this have to be an either/ or issue? I think the numbers are pretty compelling and it's likely that the numbers did indeed go up substantially. However there is no denying that the diagnosis has been refined, other categories (besides "classical" autism, like PDD NOS and Asperger) have been included. The same has probably happened with ADD as well, I can't imagine any of us not recalling a classmate who was just a "wild" kid, every teacher's nightmare, yet nobody back then was on Ritalin or labeled ADD. When I was in school I worked a summer in an institution for handicapped children, and I distinctly recall head banging and rocking from nonverbal teens labeled as "MR" and placed there. That could have been my son 22 years ago.
How much of the increase is real, how much is due to reporting variances, how much is due to better diagnosis, anyone's guess. I believe there is a real increase, but I don't think it's as spectacular as these percentages indicate. Still any increase is worrisome and needs looking into.
As to why the increase- I have no idea. I agree with Winnie about it being best to avoid statements like "definitely mercury"- it doesn't help, even though it's a catchy statement. Nothing is definite, the information Erik is referencing is presented in detail in the EOH book which I've read cover to cover. It does NOT prove that mercury causes autism. All it does is present a plausible association and makes a compelling argument for the fact that we probably will never have good studies, because the CDC and other high powered public health officials were scared out of their minds to look, for fear of what they might find. But that doesn't prove cause and effect. What about the non-vaccinated ASD kids, the chelation non-responders, the pre-vaccine era autistics etc?
I wish I had the certainty of knowing what caused my son's autism like some of the posters on this board have. For us, I have honestly no idea. All I could come up with was bad luck :( . I am not dismissing the vaccines as a potential factor, not at all, mercury has no place in a child's body, just common sense, but I think we should keep an open mind that maybe all the answers aren't out yet.
Alex's mom


Alex's mom, Vaccines were not a 'potential factor' in my daughter's autism. They were a direct and immediate cause. I hate to say "you shoulda been there." Her reaction was immediate and SEVERE to her vaccines. We lost our normal little girl in LESS THAN A WEEK after her 14 month round of jabs. We found high levels of mercury in her body... we found measles, rubella and herpes viruses infecting her intestines...

I don't need more proof than that. All the studies (like Burbacher's, Hornig's, James... and the desktop experiments of Haley...and the Geiers' epidemiological studies, etc... are all icing on the cake as far as I'm concerned. And the leaked pharmaceutical documents... and the Simpsonwood transcript... all those things are a huge white elephant cowering in the corner while his owner is trying to convince you that some OTHER large animal broke your coffee table. It looks like the elephant. It smells like the elephant. But just because a notary public wasn't there to certify the event... you won't investigate the elephant?

I'm not that dumbo. I'm gonna kick that elephant's butt, then I'm going after the owner... only we're not talking about broken coffee tables... but the greatest legacies we have to offer the world: our children.

I am going to recover my child. My only child. The light in my world. And when I do, you will be witness. We all will.

Erik

Guest

Postby Guest » Sat Mar 11, 2006 6:25 am

Vanessa you have a very good point. What parent wants a lifelong neurological condition diagnosed for their child. I didnt skip to the paediatricians office hoping for a dx! I always say to the fellow members in my support group, "i never wanted to meet any of you!! I dont want to be here!" Its not that i dont like them, its just that i never wanted for my beautiful child and me to be thrown into this world. What parent does?

Who wants a dx for their child that stays with the child their whole life? Who wants to deal with the crap that comes with it, in terms of funding. Who wants the worry and heart breaking pain?

As it stands where i live, you have to BEG for a dx, it dosent come lightly. Doctors arent handing out dx's willy nilly, cause they are part of the whole medical establishment and they know its going to cost. Each child they dx will cost thousands. Its not like a dx of ASD is like giving out an rx for the flu. Its not like parents skip merrily to the doctors office and are elated at a dx so they can get services.

MOst parents are devastated at the dx. They may be relieved, but they are devastasted at the same time. Doctors will find every excuse NOT to dx and with better screening methods this will get even worse i think in terms of getting a dx.

respect

Guest

Postby Guest » Sat Mar 11, 2006 9:13 am

Well said Erik!!!! I say this all the time, how i am going to recover my child and i get odd looks or patronising comments. Yet, if i was all doom and gloom and told people how awful autism has been for my little guy and our family, i would get so much sympathy and "undertanding.

When parents stand up and say they arent going to "take it anymore" that they want answers, they often come up against the effects of the propaganada machine. Throw in a few choice words about vaccinations and people think you are some conspiracy theorist. If it wasnt so serious, it would make me laugh. BUt i am not laughing and wont be until more people wake up and realise that autism is so "loaded" with money, power and politics. It dosent just stand alone as a "condition" or a "disorder". That is why it is so frustrating to talk about and to be a parent of a child on the spectrum. When you talk about autism, you have to talk about the whole picture, not just a dx, if you are going to find any truth in the matter.

Parents experiences in my opinion are the closest thing to truth i have seen so far and i know its going to be a parent who "discovers" where autism came from and where it is going and how to stop it.

thanks Erik.

respect

Guest

Postby Guest » Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:23 am

Alex's Mom,

As uncomfortable as you are about "catchy statements" would you go out on a limb, as an MD of course, to say that there has been an incredible increase in immune system dysregulation and disordered biochemistries among this newest generation of children that just so happens to coincide with the increase in rates of autism?

I am not a big believer of coincidences, Doc. To use Doc parlance, wouldn't that classify as "comorbidity"? Did I get that part right Doc?

Let's leave this misnomr of "autism" alone for a moment. Were your misdiagnosed with MR individuals of yesteryear presenting with such symptoms?. As far as I know, there are no reports of this.

And how do you explain the temporal connection rported by scores of parents between a DPT or MMR jab and the development of gut issues and awareness issues and high=pitched screams? In general, the losing of a normally developing toddler? Perhaps there are posters here who knew something was wrong from birth with their children, but with most of us, this is not the case.

HTRTC

Guest

Postby Guest » Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:39 am

Furthermore, for all you anti-cure, fingerpointing (cultist!, anarchists!, conspiracy theorists!, tomato, potato, rotten egg throwers!, withches, blah, blah, blah)

Please stop crying "Bully" as it is getting tedious and I already hear it ad nauseum from my 5 year old. Our children's condition and the theories about how they could have deteriorated from healthy to autistic is and will always be emotinally charged and with good reason. Most posters on this forum would probably agree there is open debate here and no, there could not possible be an equal number of people on both sides. There NEVER is, regardless of the issue.


"Mommy, he's being meeeeaaaannnnn to me!" I'm starting to hear it in my sleep and now I have to read it here as well.

Sheesh.

Some days I sit here in my fuzzy slippers, a harried Mom of an ASD child and laugh at the ludricrous "cultists" barbs. But today is not one of them.


HTRTC

BTDT
Posts: 3492
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 8:02 pm

Postby BTDT » Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:54 am

Well, against my better judgment, I will jump in here and give my opinion. This is strictly my opinion derived from my experiences and research. I am not anti-cure, I just would like to see some decent research into our kids issues, and for the most part I haven't seen that yet.

There is an obvious genetic connection in our case. I have fraternal twin boys, one has autism and the other has speech delay/disorder. My husband has significant social issues. My husband’s brother didn't talk until he was 4 (I think he was probably a kid who would have been diagnosed as PDD today, although he's fine now). My husband's other brother has a son who has what I feel is undiagnosed Aspergers. Also, my husband has a cousin, who is now in her late 40's, who has severe autism (like my son). She was put in an institution in the 1960’s when she was about 4. She now lives in a group home. On my side, my brother has a son who has Down's syndrome who is also diagnosed with autism.
I think the increase in autism numbers is due, at least in part, to the change in how autism is diagnosed. Kids like my husband's brother are now being diagnosed with PDD who never were before. My twin with speech delay/disorder could have been diagnosed with PDD as well, we just chose not to pursue diagnosis, and he is a kid that never would have received a diagnosis in the past. My husband's nephew who I believe has Aspergers, received a diagnosis of childhood schizoid disorder, where as now it is obvious to me that he would be diagnosed as Aspergers. My husband’s cousin, who is in her 40’s and in the group home was born in the 50’s, before the increase in vaccines. Also, this cousin was not originally diagnosed with autism, but at some point, I’m not sure when, her diagnosis was changed to autism. My nephew who has Down’s, was diagnosed with autism as well when he was 9, he is now in his teens. It has been only recently that kids with Down’s would also be diagnosed with autism. Before that it was just assumed that their autistic behavior was simply part of the Down’s.

I do think it's possible that there is an environmental trigger that is more prevalent now, but for the most part I believe these kids were here all along. My mother happened to teach special ed in the 70's. I volunteered at a summer camp for kids with special needs with her for several years. I don't remember any kids that had an autism label, but I do remember several kids who were labeled "brain damaged" or "emotionally disturbed", and thinking back on their behavior now, I think they probably had autism. Also, my son with autism goes to a school for kids with severe disabilities that has been around since the 80's. I asked the assistant principal if the number of kids with autism has increased there. She said no, but before they were in the "emotionally disturbed" or "behavior" class, where as now there are separate "autism" classes.
I have not seen anything, and I have read the research that Erik cited and more, that leads me to believe that mercury has anything to with autism. I think it’s an interesting hypothesis, but only a hypothesis. My kids never had a reaction to their vaccines, although I can see how if I had a kid like Erik’s who had an immediate and severe vaccine reaction with subsequent regression, I would likely blame the vaccines. I personally find the mercury issue frustrating, because I feel like it is a red herring. It is obvious to me that there are metabolic, and maybe even mitochondrial, abnormalities in autism. I think the methylation and sulfation problems that some have identified deserve to be investigated. I just don’t think mercury is the main culprit here, if a culprit at all.

There are a couple more things that I think led to the increased diagnosis of autism. One is the interest in ABA therapy, which started in the late 80’s and early 90’s. For the first time there was a specific therapy that was supposed to help autism, and so having a diagnosis of autism would be something that one might want to pursue. For my son who is speech delayed, if we had lived in an area, where he could have received really good verbal behavior ABA with an autism (PDD-NOS) diagnosis, then I would have pursued an autism diagnosis for him. However, in our area, he was receiving everything that was appropriate for him without a diagnosis. Finally, I think the Internet played a role in increased diagnosis as well. The Internet became popular in the early to mid nineties. I know I was getting the wait and see line from our pediatrician about my sons’ delayed development, and I got on the Internet to research speech delay and realized very quickly my son had autism. The Internet certainly has increased autism awareness.

Okay, that’s it for now. Flame away if you feel the need.

BTDT
Posts: 3492
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 8:02 pm

Postby BTDT » Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:56 am

HTRTC,

What are you so angry about? Are you always this angry at other people who have a different opinion than you do?

Guest

Postby Guest » Sat Mar 11, 2006 12:05 pm

HTRTC, you bring up a good point. The school boards are crying bully too and even have the media on their side when they say that they are being "attacked" by us "demanding" parents. boo hoo, poor them. Them, with their millions and millions, and us with nothing. Poor wee darlings.

As i said before, its classic politics to personalise this issue as a "me" vs "you" argument. Its nothing to do with personalities but the lies and untruths believed and told regarding autism are fair game and if someone who spouts those lies and untruths cant take the heat, well too bad. Back up your argument or be prepared for the fall out. Its nothing to do with any person personally, until they "make" it personal.

The little guy always gets it in the back side, and that includes parents like us who dont buy the crap that the big business and government stat officials are feeding us. I save my tears for when i am feeling isolated, depressed and alone, not for the feelings of posters here and elsewhere who choose to tout the pharma line, the brainwashed line. Thats the easy way out, or possibly its a secret agenda. Every board with a grain of salt which is "dealing" with autism from a parent's perspective, has these kinds of posters. Though debate is good, i have yet in the last year been presented with a convincing argument to change my mind regarding autism rates. The rates are rising, autism and learning disabilities are increasing. The world is a dirty toxic, money and power feeding frenzy and our kids suffer for it. PLAIN AND SIMPLE.



It takes guts and courage to realise what is really going on regarding our kids. This forum and its members have shown a lot of guts in the face of so many telling us the opposite. Parents like us get "politicised" real quick when we start investigating what is really going on. Its like all knowledge, once you know, you cant "unknow". The knowledge just keeps increasing.

Most of us here are far more knowledgeable than our GP's in terms of autism (which isnt saying much considering the lack of knowledge of most GPs re: autism) But we have a pretty good idea of what is going on with our kids. The knowledge about autism and rates of autism dont exist in some vault in the White house (though the reason for it might). You and I have just as much experiential knowledge of autism as do the statisticians, based on who we know, what we know, etc.

Credit to everyone on this board - it still remains my greatest source of strength and information.

respect

Guest

Postby Guest » Sat Mar 11, 2006 12:15 pm

BDTD

Can't put one over on you. Never did suffer fools gladly. Maybe together we can work on my shortcomings.


HTRTC

Guest

Postby Guest » Sat Mar 11, 2006 1:18 pm

HTRTC, must be a lot of psychologists on this board, always enquiring about personal feelings and "anger", i feel sometimes like i should get on the couch myself, and spill it out to Dr Autismweb.

respect

Mary
Posts: 472
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 8:28 am

Number of Vaccines

Postby Mary » Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:03 pm

ASD parent wrote:remember vaccines have been around for years. You do sound like you have done you'r reaserch and are quite knowlagebl..


I have no interest in debating the causes of autism here. But I would like to point out some trends worth noting, regardless of your opinion on whether environmental exposures to mercury, toxic chemicals or medicines contribute to, or cause, autism.

The number of required vaccines has increased dramatically since 1990, while the age of vaccination has been lowered. In the last 15 years, the mercury-loaded Hepatitis B vaccine was required in infancy, given to newborns, and then given twice again before age 4 months. The chicken pox vaccine was developed and given to children beginning at 12 months. The oral polio vaccine, popular in the 1960s and 70s, was largely replaced by the inactivated polio shot. The oral polio vaccine did not have mercury, but did infect some people who received the vaccine with polio. The polio shot had mercury, but was "safer" in that you could not get polio from it. I'm not sure when the HIB vaccine was introduced on the market, but it certainly did not exist when my generation was growing up. It also had mercury. (I say "had" because I believe most of these shots now have little or no mercury, or at least are "supposed to" be mercury-free.)

These are the vaccines that my children received that were NOT available to me as a child: measles, mumps, rubella, chicken pox, Hepatitis B, Hib, and flu vaccines. The only vaccines I received, which began at a later age than currently, were polio and DPT.

Personally, it doesn't matter to me what one person believes or doesn't believe about the environmental causes of autism. But I did want to point out that the latest generation is exposed to more vaccines, and earlier in life, than the generation born in the 1960s and 1970s.

momtoMatthew
Posts: 813
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2005 5:47 pm

Postby momtoMatthew » Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:18 pm

OK well I guess we can't have a mature conversation w/out getting snippety with each other. Theres no need to be rude and snide.

Of course now I guess you will take offense at the above. :?

It just seems a shame that we can't discuss our opinions on a subject without insulting each other in some way or another.

I too believe that mercury is a huge factor in our growing autism rates however I don't believe its the WHOLE story. I'm sorry Eric that your daughter had such a severe reaction to her vaccines. It is horrible and definetely a crime. It is insane that the medical profession cannot see the obvious in your face results of this as they turn a blind eye to humanity and all seeing eye to the financial aspects of how to turn a dollar by destroying our childrens lives.

The only thing I was disagreeing with was the possibility that maybe the RATES of autism rising had something to do with false reports and not JUST mercury. I do know that just by speaking to my mother that in her day there just wasn't this sort of thing happening. They didn't have any children who were 'different' and they didn't get very many if any at all vaccines. So yes I definetely believe that mercury has a role.

Anyway, I guess I'm repeating myself... I just really think that we can discuss this w/out the nasty comments.

Guest

Postby Guest » Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:24 pm

I happen to think that vaccines play an important part in autism, but probably not the only factor. I seem to agree quite often with Alex's Mom (not necessarily this time), are you really a doctor or was that just a snide comment by HTRTC? She certainly does make them most of the time. She may be right and I respect her opinion. I just don't like her way of presenting her opinions - rude and childish to anyone who disagrees. I hope this web keeps all parents, regardless of opinions, I notice a lot dropping away and I sometimes wonder why. We all need the help of each other and I enjoy sharing different opinions and learning from them.

Mary (other one)


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