check this out.. rates of autism 1994 -2005 U.S. wide

Discuss autism theories, media stories, and efforts to put ASD on the government agenda here.

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BTDT
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Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 8:02 pm

Postby BTDT » Sat Mar 11, 2006 6:30 pm

HTRTC,

I have nothing against you. I assume you are a tired parent, much like myself. I just don't understand why you are taking out your anger out on others who just happen to have a different opinion than you do. I think you're perfectly entitled to your opinion, I don't agree with you on many things, but I don't see that as something to be angry at you about. I don't feel threatened that you believe autism has a different cause than I do.

I'm not saying I feel superior to you either, because I don't. I just don't see why you want to take out your anger on me, Alex's Mom, and any other individual that happens to disagree with you.

I am a stay at home Mom of 3 kids who lives in a suburb, and I wear fuzzy slippers too. I bet I'm not much different than you are. And I don't want to work on your shortcomings, I have too many of my own to work on.

r's mom
Posts: 477
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 12:39 am

Postby r's mom » Sat Mar 11, 2006 6:51 pm

Does anyone have statistics on the incidence of childhood MR, emotionally disturbed kids and related disorders that were diagnosed back in say the 50s 60s which could have been autism misdiagnosed. It would be interesting to see a comparison between the total numbers.

There can be a tendency for some people to think that what caused their childs autism is the cause of all autism. I believe that there may be a genetic predisposition and some kids even without the vaccines and toxins and disordered biology they would have autism but that is not to say that all the toxins, viruses, anibiotics are not altering our babies biology and causing rising rates of autism.

I too am of the opinion that there is not one cause of autism but many. Mercury is NOT the sole cause but neither is it solely genetic like the mainstream would like us to believe. With the increase in virus being injected into our babies along with the toxins in those injections the virus bypasses part of the developing immune system, and actually depletes the immune system. I believe there is a correlation between the huge increase in immune system disorders eg asthma, allergies, diabetes and the increase in autism. Interesting reading at this site (A Comprehensive Guide to Managing Autism) http://www.autisme.net/Autism%20and%20Nutrition.htm Here is a quote from it.
There are three major classes of Immune Cell types: granulocytes, monocytes, and lymphocytes. Lymphocytes are divided into three subgroups: B-Cells, T-cells, and Natural Killer Cells. T-cells are divided into helper cells, suppressor cells, and cytotoxic CD8, Killer T-cells. T-helper cells are called CD4 cells. That is, they shows the CD4 glycoprotein on their surface. All these produce cytokines, chemical messengers that tell the other cells what to do. The CD4+ lymphocyte helper cell activities are divided into Th1 (Cell-mediated immunity—defense primarily against viral, fungi, and protozoa) and Th2 (humoral immunity—helps the B-cell to produce antibodies). Th1 and Th2 represent two separate, counterbalancing, functions of the immune system, and problems occur when they are out of balance. It's most revealing to learn that the same insult given to those of different genetic makeup will cause some to have a Th1 response, whereas others will have a Th2 response! The ratio of these two is determined by the balance of adrenal steroids, notably cortisol and DHEA. Since cortisol is an antagonist of DHEA, stress-induced cortisol production shifts the number of CD4+ lymphocytes to predominantly Th2 expression. When Th1 is diminished, Th2 predominates leading to a host of chronic diseases. Conditions are pro viral, pro candida. The chronic viral infection whether measles or other cannot be cleared as long as this bias exists. Furthermore, candida can enhance Th2. This increases IgE, causing candida to really flourish. IgE is productive of numerous allergies. So, if you have high IgE or numerous allergies, suspect that candida and stress are at work. To reduce stress-produced cortisol by 49%, give the child 100 mcg of chromium each day. A 45 minute massage (back rub?) will give a like reduction. Raising glutathione levels has been shown to alter the cytokine balance in favor of a Th1 immune response—"The immune system"). (Peterson JD et al., 1998).

In addition to stress-induced, immune suppression, the body’s natural defense system is also susceptible to stress-induced malnutrition. When the body begins to suffer from stress-induced malnutrition, the cells of the immune system are deprived of critical nutrients necessary for their function. In addition to the macronutrients, myraid micronutrients that include zinc, selenium, vitamins A, C, E, and B6, the amino acids glutamine, cysteine, and arginine, and Omega-3 and Omega-6 fatty acids are known to be necessary for a functional immune system. It is vital to note that MMR vaccine, and the chronic measles infection so often following, depletes the body of vitamin A. A deficiency of vitamin A and zinc, in particular, hinders cell-mediated immunity (Th1), and "our" kids are universally lacking in these vital nutrients.

Cell-mediated immunity (CMI) in many infants is probably low, and the vaccines lower CMI further. One vaccine decreases CMI by 50%; two together by 70%. Three? Yet, repeated immunizations with 3 vaccines simultaneously from 4 weeks to 12 or 18 months are given. Repeat DPT is given at 12 months. All these triple vaccines markedly impair CMI, yet some uninformed doctors, solely for convenience and profit give 10 viruses into these struggling immune systems in one sitting! The longest safety trial of the triple vaccine (MMR, all live attenuated viruses) was three weeks!

"The repeated use of vaccinations would tend to shift the functional balance of the immune system toward the antibody-producing side (Th2), and away from the acute inflammatory discharging side (the cell-mediated side or Th1). This has been confirmed by observation especially in the case of Gulf War Illness: most vaccinations caused a shift in immune function from the Th1 side (acute inflammatory discharging response) to the Th2 side (chronic auto-immune or allergic response).

"The wise use of vaccinations would be to use them selectively, and not on a mass scale. In order for vaccinations to be helpful and not harmful, we must know beforehand in each individual to be vaccinated whether the Th1 function or the Th2 function of the immune system predominates. In individuals in whom the Th1 function predominates, causing many acute inflammations because the cellular immune system is overreactive, a vaccination could have a balancing effect on the immune system and be helpful for that individual. In individuals in whom the Th2 function predominates, causing few acute inflammations, but rather the tendency to chronic allergic or autoimmune inflammations, a vaccination would cause the Th2 function to predominate even more, aggravating the imbalance of the immune system and harming the health of that individual"—Philip F. Incao, MD.

Multiple vaccinations, in shifting this delicate balance to a predominant Th2 response, favor the development of atopy (asthma, eczema, hay fever, and food intolerances) and, perhaps, autoimmunity through vaccine-induced, polyclonal activation leading to autoantibody production. An increase in the incidence of childhood atopic diseases may be expected as a result of concurrent vaccination strategies that induce a Th2-biased immune response.



For my son I believe vaccination had a major roll to play, from early on he had eczema, reflux, bowel problems ( he was 8 week prem and had antibiotics as soon as he was born, then early vaccinations) then asthma, food allergies and intolerances and hayfever and seeming to react to just everything, and chronic viral infections. All the while not getting any help from mainstream medicine except for scripts to get asthma inhalers and them saying that it was genetic because his dad has seasonal hayfever!!!!!

Guest

Postby Guest » Sat Mar 11, 2006 7:07 pm

HTRTC:
Please re-read my earlier post. Then please re-read yours (you can skip over your rude remarks and the personal sarcasm, the purpose of which is unclear to me).

I, unlike you, do not know what caused my child's autism. In our case, much unlike Erik's, problems were evident early on (subtle, but hindsight is 20/20), and no worsening happened after the shots. Do I extrapolate from here that ALL cases of autism are present at birth? Not at all. Then why would others extrapolate that it's all in the vaccines, just because that was their children's story?
I, unlike others, do not know how to "cure" my child's autism. I do however know how to help him gain skills, and feel blessed for that reason. I also have pursued many biochemical avenues in the hope of finding some answers which I have not found in our case. Doesn't mean they don't exist for others. But I did learn a lot in the process.

I am very far from using my son's experience to infer generalities about autism. Apparently, this is not the case for everyone here. I believe that there are many subtypes of autism out there, some genetic, some vaccine related (via mercury or some other association maybe), some due to other factors. There is no doubt in my mind that in 2006 ASD diagnosis is much more refined than in 1980. That doesn't take anything away from the tragedy of autism today, it just makes the numbers more difficult to interpret. Debating this issue may not necessarily be relevant for any given child's treatment and frankly is somewhat of a moot point IMO.

As to your questions (which I don't understand very well), I will just have to claim my ignorance on the matter. I wasn't aware autism was a misnomer, and I also don't know what immune system or biochemical dysregulations the MR misdiagnosed kids from "yesteryear" had and how those compared with today's PDD kids. I am certainly not discounting at all the regression that some kids experience with vaccines, if you had read my earlier post more carefully you would have seen that I never said that. I simply said that I don't think it's all mercury or vaccine related. To me, the limitations of our knowledge are much more clear than what we DO know about autism. This was my point in "mom's parlance ".

Alex's mom





[/u]

Guest

for Alex Mum

Postby Guest » Sat Mar 11, 2006 7:59 pm

Please do not take it personally if someone tries to offend you .
I have always enjoyed your posts very much and I think that you have a very intelligent and rational approach to whatever is happening in autism word.

Guest

Postby Guest » Sun Mar 12, 2006 4:12 am

I hate getting into this personalities thing again here but have to jump in to HTRTC's defence (whether she wants me to or not, as I know she is perfectly capable of doing so herself!).

HTRTC is a hoot, and i can't imagine taking anything she or anyone else says, personally. Having a child with ASD, i have developed a VERY thick skin, having had to deal with ignorant GP's, well meaning but nosy relatives, and stares and looks from members of the public who normally i wouldnt even take a second look at. I find it hard to believe that with all the crap we as parents of children on the spectrum have to deal with, that a message board like this is able to get under our skin. yeah, its an emotive issue, but HTRTC and others including myself try our best to bring something to this board in full honesty of what we believe to be true. WHAT WE BELIEVE TO BE TRUE, in lieu of any real advances in terms of autism, IS ALL WE GOT.

This isnt the women's institute (or the american derivative). Its a web forum. I would feel foolish to take anything personal here when in real life, all I get is "in your face" real time condemnation about what i am trying to do for my son in terms of biomed intervention and ABA.

I think most of us are pretty angry at autism. It comes out in all kinds of ways. I hate autism, i want it swept away from my child's life. Talking about to anyone, much less here anonymously, is very difficult to do, particularly in the face of comments and opinions which I know to be based on little evidence.

This thread is about the increasing rates of autism. We all know its increasing, there is no excuse to deny this. I dont know why anyone would WANT to deny it. Rates in the U.K. are touted at 1 in 110. Many in the autism "community" dispute this, because experientially, and based on pocketed analysis of particular areas, it is much higher.

My own sons paediatrician has advised a 500 percent increase since 2001. He had 49 cases at the end of 2001. He now has almost 300. He is only one doctor in one clinic. There are four other consulting paeds that he works with who have the same experience. ASD units are cropping up all over my town. The ASD outreach workers are inundated with work, going to schools and helping kids with learning disabilities. They cant cope with the numbers. We need to look at the whole picture, not just government stats which could be tweaked. I mean do you BELIEVE the government so far??

The U.K. wont release autism stats U.K. wide. Every case of ASD is logged with a central branch of the health service but they wont release the info???? Why is that? Even the National Autistic Society here has no real record of stats. Only after talking to a couple of paediatricians did i realise what was really going on. Only after going out and seeing potential nurseries for my son, did i realise the breadth of the problem. I live in a pretty small town. Whats it like in the bigger cities?

Autism dosent have a "face" at least in the younger years like CP or spina bifida or Downs Syndrome. "They" have been able to avoid dealing with the problem for some time, but now its unavoidable with the numbers of cases continually growing. We cant keep ignoring kids who cant talk, who cant learn, who are in "their own world". The state knows it has to do something about our kids. If there were only a few, they would ignore them, but that just isnt the case now.

Why would anyone want to deny that autism numbers are growing, particularly parents of ASD kids. Its in our interests to know the real numbers of ASD cases.

If you had a child with a mystery disease, one of only a handful in the whole world, would you want to know that there are others out there just like your child? so that you could learn from their experience? Of course. You wouldnt deny those other children.

I just dont know why a parent with a child on the spectrum would argue the numbers increasing. It dosent make sense to me. My support group is now at 20 people. These are the vocal parents. There are hundreds of parents who quietly get on with their lot, without a support group, who languish at home with no help not knowing where to turn, parents of kids who havent been diagnosed, who watch their children slowly retreat into themselves with little help.

I feel that denying the numbers of autism, denies these children their birthright.

I would rather we were wrong about the numbers being too high, than wrong about the numbers being too low!!!!

why would we want to argue that numbers arent as high as they really are? Because you are seeking truth???? heck you arent going to get real truth concerning autism, at least not for some time. I already know the numbers are growing, i dont need a government statistician to tell me this. Its in my face everyday. Just like i didnt need an autism ignorant GP telling me that there was nothing that could be done for my son.

The medical community/pharmas/government want to deny the autism and make it go away. Its expensive and its growing. Why would they want to admit anything??? which is going to cost them hundreds of millions.

respect

Guest

Postby Guest » Sun Mar 12, 2006 10:46 am

CHECK THIS OUT... http://www.ehponline.org/members/2006/114-2/focus.html

New Thinking on Neurodevelopment
The notion that some substances in the environment can damage the nervous system has an ancient history. The neurotoxicity of lead was recognized more than 2,000 years ago by the Greek physician Dioscerides, who wrote, “Lead makes the mind give way.” In the intervening millennia many other substances have been added to the list of known or suspected neurotoxicants. Despite this accumulation of knowledge, there is still much that isn’t understood about how neurotoxicants affect the developing brain, especially the effects of low-dose exposures. Today researchers are taking a hard look at low-dose exposures in utero and during childhood to unravel some of the mysteries of impaired neurodevelopment.
About 17% of school-age children in the United States suffer from a disability that affects their behavior, memory, or ability to learn, according to a study published in the March 1994 issue of Pediatrics by a team from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). The list of maladies includes attention deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), autistic spectrum disorders, epilepsy, Tourette syndrome, and less specific conditions such as mental retardation and cerebral palsy. All are believed to be the outcome of some abnormal process that unfolded as the brain was developing in utero or in the young child.


image: Ahmed Hussam/iStockphoto

These disorders have an enormous impact on families and society. According to the 1996 book Learning Disabilities: Lifelong Issues, children with these disorders have higher rates of mental illness and suicide, and are more likely to engage in substance abuse and to commit crimes as adults. The overall economic cost of neurodevelopmental disorders in the United States is estimated to be $81.5-167 billion per year, according to a report published in the December 2001 issue of EHP Supplements.

Potentially even more disturbing is that a number of epidemiologic studies suggest that the incidence of certain disorders is on the rise. In the United States, the diagnosis of autistic spectrum disorders increased from 4-5 per 10,000 children in the 1980s to 30-60 per 10,000 children in the 1990s, according to a report in the August 2003 Journal of Autism and Developmental Disorders. Similarly, notes a report in the February 2002 issue of CNS Drugs, the diagnosis of ADHD grew 250% between 1990 and 1998. The number of children in special education programs classified with learning disabilities increased 191% between 1977 and 1994, according to an article in Advances in Learning and Behavioral Disabilities, Volume 12, published in 1998.

So what is going on? The short answer is that no one really knows. There’s not even consensus on what the soaring rates actually mean. Heightened public awareness could account for the surge in the numbers, or it may be that physicians are getting better at diagnosing the conditions. Some autism researchers believe the rise in that condition’s prevalence simply reflects changes in diagnostic criteria over the last 25 years. On the other hand, some scientists believe that the rates of neurodevelopmental disease are truly increasing, and that the growing burden of chemicals in the environment may play a role.

With that in mind, investigators are considering the effects of gene-environment interactions. A child with a mild genetic tendency toward a neurodevelopmental disorder might develop without clinically measurable abnormalities in the absence of environmental “hits.” However, children in industrialized nations develop and grow up in a veritable sea of xenobiotic chemicals, says Isaac Pessah, director of the University of California, Davis, Center for Children’s Environmental Health and Disease Prevention. “Fortunately,” he says, “most of us have a host of defense mechanisms that protect us from adverse outcomes. However, genetic polymorphisms, complex epistasis, and cytogenetic abnormalities could weaken these defenses and amplify chemical damage, initiating a freefall into a clinical syndrome.”


image: Photodisc

Pessah cites the example of autism. He says susceptibility for autism is likely conferred by several defective genes, no one of which can account for all the core symptoms of social disinterest, repetitive and overly focused behaviors, and problems in communication. Could multiple genetic liabilities and exposure to a chemically complex environment act in concert to increase the incidence and severity of the condition?

Despite the uncertainties, many scientists believe it would be wise to err on the side of caution when it comes to a research agenda. As Martha Herbert, a pediatric neurologist at Harvard Medical School, puts it, “Even though we may have neither consensus nor certainty about an autism epidemic, there are enough studies coming in with higher numbers that we should take it seriously. Environmental hypotheses ought to be central to research now. The physiological systems that have been harmed by environmental factors may also point to treatment targets, and this might be a great way to help the children.”

The Parade of Neurotoxicants
Among the most intensely studied neurotoxicants are metals (lead, mercury, and manganese), pesticides, polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs), and polybrominated diphenyl ethers (PBDEs). A number of these compounds were identified as neurotoxicants when individuals were exposed to high doses during occupational accidents or childhood poisonings. Scientists are now exploring the potential consequences of low-dose exposures, especially to children and fetuses. Epidemiologic studies play a central role, and these are often complemented by experimental work on animals and cell cultures. These days, researchers are looking not only at associations between toxicants and disease, but also at the underlying cellular and molecular mechanisms.

Lead. Studies dating to the 1970s show that children exposed to lead have deficits in IQ, attention, and language. In response, the CDC revised its limits for acceptable blood levels of the metal in several steps, from 60 micrograms per deciliter (µg/dL) in the 1960s to the current level of 10 µg/dL, set in 1991. But many scientists think that limit is still too high. A study reported in the September 2005 issue of EHP found that there were significant effects on a child’s IQ even when blood lead concentrations were below 10 µg/dL. Upon the July 2005 release of the Third National Report on Human Exposure to Environmental Chemicals by the CDC, Jim Pirkle, deputy director for science at the CDC’s Environmental Health Laboratory, stated, “There is no safe blood [lead] level in children.”

Several groups have also found evidence that lead exposure may shape a child’s social behavior. An article in the May 2000 issue of Environmental Research reports a strong correlation, dating back to 1900, between violent crime and the use of lead-based paint and leaded gasoline. The research complements studies by Herbert Needleman, a professor of psychiatry and pediatrics at the University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine, who found that bone lead levels in young males were correlated with aggression and criminality. “Lead is significantly associated with a risk for delinquency,” says Needleman. His research appeared in the November-December 2002 issue of Neurotoxicology and Teratology and the 7 February 1996 issue of JAMA.


article continues, very interesting coming from the "mainstream"

Guest

Postby Guest » Wed Mar 15, 2006 4:06 pm

Critics notwtihstanding, I will not be dissuaded in posting what are obvious conclusions to glaring facts.

Vaccines are a major causative factor in regressive autism.

There are always those that will miss the point, those that are part of the problem, those that choose to have their heads in the sand, those that can be bamboozled, hoodwinked all or just some of the time, those that will turn on and want to kill the messenger, those that figure out a way to benefit from the suffering of others.

Nothing new under the sun..

Genocide, bigotry, ethnic "cleansing", oppression, repression - name any large-scale atrocity in human history and you will see how every and any one particular individual fell into one of those categories.

Which one will you be? You choose.

(BTW, the poster who identifies herself as Alex's Mom has posted she is actually an MD).

Alex's Mom: Huh?

Wouldn't any reasonable parent be angry at what is proving to be essentially an iatrogenic disease? Sorry, whether you guys wanna hear it or not, the evidence keeps mounting. Of course I'm angry, be angry with me my dear, silly, critics. Don't repress or deny it or speak about it in hushed tones as if it is something BAD, let it motivate you in positive, constructive ways that will help our children.

Cause if you don't admit your anger yourselves and claim your own angry feelings, you will see anger under every rock. Worse, it will fester and come out in not-so-positive ways like targeting those that have done you no harm. Use your heads.

HTRTC(Handthatrocksthecradle)

Guest

Postby Guest » Wed Mar 15, 2006 4:40 pm

I left out "victim" and "victims' advocates" in my list of categories.

See? I too lost sight of what really matters for a moment.

Shame on me too.

HTRTC

TamiW
Posts: 3855
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 12:46 pm

Postby TamiW » Wed Mar 15, 2006 5:58 pm

Here's a real interesting site. Check out the statistics as you scroll down the page. http://www.specialfoods.com/CIP-Aut-Env.html
Tami

BTDT
Posts: 3492
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 8:02 pm

Postby BTDT » Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:01 pm

Here's something I didn't know:

http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/asd_common.htm
Has the number of children being served under an ASD classification in public special education programs changed?
Yes. In 1994 ASDs were the 10th most common disability serving children ages 6-21 in special education. Between 1994 and 2003 the number of children being classified as having an ASD has increased six-fold from 22,664 to 141,022. While it is clear that more children are getting Special Education services for Autism than ever before, it is important to remember that this classification was only added in the early 1990’s and the growth of children classified may be in part due to the addition of this as a special education category.


How do the rates of ASDs in special education compare with that of other disabilities?Autism was added as a special education exceptionality in 1991 and is now the 6th most commonly classified disability in the United States. The most common disability classifications in 2003 were: specific learning disabilities (2,866,908 children served), speech or language impairments (1,129,260 children served), mental retardation (582,663 children served), emotional disturbance (484,479 children served), and other health impairments, which often includes children diagnosed with ADHD (452,442 children served).

Guest

Postby Guest » Fri Mar 17, 2006 1:23 am

It's like Lord of the Flies here at Autism Web!

HTRTC, erik

Advocate for YOUR child, but you are not the voice of all autistic kids and their parents.

Obviously there are factors other besides better diagnostic criteria contributing to the rise in autism cases, but there's still no proven link between mercury and autism. I am amazed that parents will get worked up about the mercury link, yet they'll fork over their mortgage for treatments that have little to no research to back their effectiveness in treating autism. What could be more disturbing than people out there trying to make a buck off of your hope and your pain? I may have said this before or elsewhere, but if you had a cure for autism would you charge a parent like yourself $1800 every 2 months like some doctors who are following chelation "protocols" do? Would you charge them $400 a pop to sit inside your giant hyperbaric oxygen bubble? Would you charge them $45 for a 5 minute phone lab consult? No, you wouldn't. By that token, every parent with the money and access to the latest treatments and doctors would have a recovered kid. Not all kids are vaccine injured, not all kids respond to the diet, and not all kids will recover. My son's symptoms don't represent like yours and every time someone on this board demonizes autism, they demonize my son and every other sweet child whose parents come to this board looking for support.
LM

Guest

Postby Guest » Fri Mar 17, 2006 1:35 am

. I am amazed that parents will get worked up about the mercury link, yet they'll fork over their mortgage for treatments that have little to no research to back their effectiveness in treating autism. What could be more disturbing than people out there trying to make a buck off of your hope and your pain? I may have said this before or elsewhere, but if you had a cure for autism would you charge a parent like yourself $1800 every 2 months like some doctors who are following chelation "protocols" do? Would you charge them $400 a pop to sit inside your giant hyperbaric oxygen bubble? Would you charge them $45 for a 5 minute phone lab consult? No, you wouldn't. By that token, every parent with the money and access to the latest treatments and doctors would have a recovered kid. Not all kids are vaccine injured, not all kids respond to the diet, and not all kids will recover.


I don't feel any of the DAN's I've seen are trying to make a buck. Their medical training is worth that, and other docs charge that much for fixing our big toes, yet insurance covers it.

Our DAN is set up in a very modest office, and does not seem to dress or behave like she is making the big bucks. The other DAN has a son on the spectrum, so I believe he truly is sincere in wanting to help parents.

The diet, our first major intervention, costs money, but the products have been out there a while catering to celiacs. The dairy free stuff as well -- now, ABA providers are the ones I sometimes wonder about, however, our provider is set up as a non-profit org and pays his therapists well under what many in our area are charging.

Let's look at some of the WASTE of dollars that not treating those who are treatable would cost in terms of future obligations and services to adult autistics.

And where is the research that backs up NOT treating autistic children in any way, which is basically what has been happening all along, costing society more and more each day.

Money - hooey. There are TONS of people out there making a buck off of us in one way or another, and not just in relation to autism.

Joey'smom

quantumerik
Posts: 306
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 7:50 am

Postby quantumerik » Fri Mar 17, 2006 9:17 am

Anonymous wrote:Obviously there are factors other besides better diagnostic criteria contributing to the rise in autism cases, but there's still no proven link between mercury and autism. I am amazed that parents will get worked up about the mercury link, yet they'll fork over their mortgage for treatments that have little to no research to back their effectiveness in treating autism. What could be more disturbing than people out there trying to make a buck off of your hope and your pain? I may have said this before or elsewhere, but if you had a cure for autism would you charge a parent like yourself $1800 every 2 months like some doctors who are following chelation "protocols" do? Would you charge them $400 a pop to sit inside your giant hyperbaric oxygen bubble? Would you charge them $45 for a 5 minute phone lab consult? No, you wouldn't. By that token, every parent with the money and access to the latest treatments and doctors would have a recovered kid. Not all kids are vaccine injured, not all kids respond to the diet, and not all kids will recover. My son's symptoms don't represent like yours and every time someone on this board demonizes autism, they demonize my son and every other sweet child whose parents come to this board looking for support.
LM


LM, I KNOW that mercury is a trigger for autism, although reversing autism is not as SIMPLE as getting the mercury out. There's a lot of damage to fix, including that of chronic viral issues, mineral deficiencies, etc. But if you can't accept the independent epidemilogy, the lab and clinical science and the testimonies of at least hundreds of parents that their kids are mercury toxic and vaccine injured... then there's nothing anyone can say to help you or your child.

But that's fine with me. I'll spend my time alerting parents who will listen. And lots of them do... because our foundation relies on the testimonies of MD's and PhD's. But don't EVER accuse me or those like me of demonizing children! Autism is a horrible disorder that is treatable. The children are not horrible. And they and their autism are NOT synonymous. I have NO PROBLEM making the distinction between them. In fact, they're just as wonderful as they'd be if they were "normal". But they're sick, and they're suffering from misdevelopment...and their families suffer, both emotionally and financially. Some families fall apart completely.

You imply that us biomed parents don't offer support... what are you talking about? What kind of support do you need? A shoulder to cry on? We all do that here. But if you're looking for a phone number for a good group home... sorry. I'm looking for a cure, no less.

If you don't like discussions of mercury-related autism, why do you come to this thread? There are lots of threads in this forum for you to read. Why come here and complain about those trying to cure those kids? I bet you're frustrated, as we are, that there are no easy answers. But the biomed camp is finding a lot of the pieces to the puzzle. They'll eventually all fit, but we won't get there by not exploring these children's biochemistry.

I have no patience for those in the "neurodiverse" crowd. A great crime was committed on the children of this country by our health agencies. Accepting these kids exactly as they are, and not trying to help them recover... is to allow MORE children to be injured by unsafe vaccines and an unsafe pediatric vaccine schedule.

That said, YES, it is possible that SOME autistics are not vaccine injured... (despite the fact that vaccines are responsible for this epidemic). A pregnant mother with a load of heavy metals (mercury, etc.) and lots of dental amalgams can give birth to an autistic child...a child that was poisoned in the womb during what is the most critical stage of development. This is especially true for women who come from a family history of auto-immune diseases.

This is such a complex disorder that IS different for many kids. But I know that we're looking at heavy metal toxicity and chronic viral infection for every one of them... it's just a matter of where and when it first occurred. I will NEVER be quiet about this...and I won't judge parents who chose not to do biomed. But I will argue for my beliefs when folks like you come into forums to complain about what we're doing for our kids!

Erik

Guest

Postby Guest » Fri Mar 17, 2006 9:42 am

I'm not advocating we NOT treat autism, but do you ever wonder why treatments like chelation or DAN! visits aren't covered? Some kids DO benefit from the diet and I'm not knocking that, and yes, there are some great well intentioned DAN! doctors out there. But there are also some quacks who are more than happy to order a battery of useless labs, then charge parents a fourtune to have these unreliable results "interpreted." Joey's mom, I've taken my son to see some of these doctors, not the local DAN! but nationally known folks who headline many of these autism conferences, "practitioners" with asd kids who created the protocols that many parents have their kids on, and I can tell you from experience, they're not all they claim to be.

As far as ABA/behavioral providers are concerned, I feel this is the one area where the therapy is worth every cent.

LM

sashasmom
Posts: 1788
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 7:03 pm

Postby sashasmom » Fri Mar 17, 2006 9:58 am

That 's interesting. All of my son's DAN! visits have been covered at 100% after our $25 co pay. All of his labs are covered at 100% with no copay. All Medications including chelation are covered at 80% which is our normal drug coverage (80/20)
Our Hyperbaric treatments cost us $300 for 20 treatments which equals out to be $15 per treatment when we go to GA.

We will see Dr. Bradstreet this summer for IV chelation and he does not take insurance however insurance is reimbursing us at 80% for all charges including the IV chelation (EDTA) which is our out of network benefits once we file out out of network medical claim to them. They will not reimburse us for the IV DMPS b/c its not recognized by the FDA.

LM,
Who is the DAN! that you took your child to that is a quack? B/c I would like to not go to that DAN! I think that it's important for parents to share their experiences good or bad so that other parents can avoid that kind of situation. I completely agree that some people who claim to be DAN! (like the doctor in Montgomery, AL) do take advantage of parents. I've heard of terrible stories. But then again there are more positive stories that I have heard of and I would recommend anyone to our DAN! who does free phone consults and takes insurance.

I do want to add that this forum is for support, advice, and education. This thread started out as informational and turned into something nasty that could have been avoided. We could always move the conversation to the Biomedical forum so that people who are looking for educational advice won't feel the need to participate. Eveyone isn't biomedical I understand that.

-crystal

MIssy

Postby MIssy » Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:20 am

All I know is that my child is happier and healthier since DAN! interventions! He is making friends, riding a two wheeler, getting 100's on his spelling tests, starting to read, not throwing up anymore, having normal bowel movements, not flapping, less echolalia and obsessions, not drooling, not chewing, not banging on things, not singing and shouting extremely loud, not having night terrors, not staring into space, not stimming, and his sensory issues, what is that sensory issues? GONE!!!!!! :D :D :D :D :D

I'm sorry but this is one mother who believes that her child is poisoned by MERCURY!! Yes, there is a genetic predisposition BUT if the environment was cleaner, if he hadn't been assaulted by high loads of mercury as a baby... things would have been different for him. He wouldn't have had to suffer as he did and is still suffering! And I will shout it from the roof tops!!

7 parents in my support group have started the diet all are seeing results! Big changes.... normal bowel movements for the first time, jumping and flapping decreased, attention spans increased, eye contact increased... they are coming back to their parents and I intend to spread the word and reach as many parents as I can!
:D :D :D :D

MIssy

Postby MIssy » Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:22 am

I forgot to mention that these changes with the 7 children have happened after only being on the diet for 2 WEEKS!! :D :D

dgdavis64
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Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 11:51 pm

Postby dgdavis64 » Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:28 am

It really amazes me that highly intelligent people can conclude that just because "no studies" have been done to "prove" mercury/aluminum and other toxic chemicals in vaccines have a causal link with autism, that there is no causal link.
You're asking me to believe that mercury doesn't cause mercury poisoning. OK, so then WHAT DOES?
NO OTHER SCENARIO MAKES ANY SENSE AND IF YOU HAVE ONE THAT DOES, PLEASE TELL US!
This is so absurd, that I even have to point it out. ALL OF THE EVIDENCE IS LEADING TO VACCINES AS BEING THE MAIN "TRIGGER" TO AUTISM.

THESE FACTS CAN"T BE IGNORED.

THE ARGUMENT AGAINST MERCURY/VACCINES DOESN'T HOLD WATER!

IT SIMPLY COMES DOWN TO CAUSE AND EFFECT.

For example, If a child has tested positive for a sexually transmitted disease, wouldn't the logical conclusion be that the child was sexually molested? YES Did anyone see it? NO Have their been any "studies" to "prove" it? NO
BUT THIS DOESN'T MEAN THE CHILD WASN'T SEXUALLY MOLESTED!

I agree completely with Erik and until someone comes up with a better/more logical explaination, the facts are what they are.

If labwork/hair test has been done on an autisic child and it's determined that a heavy metal excretion problem exists in the child, isn't it the parents responsiblity to deal with this problem as the MEDICAL CONDITION it is?


For the people opposed to biomedical treatments, what should the parents do, just IGNORE THE PROBLEM EXISTS? ISN'T THAT NEGLECTFUL?

I hate to open a can of worms here, but people, lets get real. We're all here because we love our kids and will do ANYTHING to allow them to live up to their full potential.

Beware of the pharma trollbot shills posting from anonymous proxy servers

Guest

Postby Guest » Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:47 am

Joey's mom,

I don't feel any of the DAN's I've seen are trying to make a buck. Their medical training is worth that,


What "medical" training would that be? Any quack with a lagging practice can attend a one-day workshop, and with no additional equipment or training, hang a DAN shingle. The DAN list is packed with quacks, and this diminishes the reputation of legitimate DAN professionals.

Let's look at some of the WASTE of dollars that not treating those who are treatable would cost in terms of future obligations and services to adult autistics.

And where is the research that backs up NOT treating autistic children in any way, which is basically what has been happening all along, costing society more and more each day.


Actually that HAS been looked at (just by the early behavioral intervention crowd). For example, here is a cost/benefit estimate that was published eight years ago. Treatment and recovery are not new concepts, even if the theres-no-such-thing-as-autism-its-mercury-poisoning propaganda leads you to believe otherwise. There is a world of information out there regarding treating children with autism beyond the gen rescue hysterics. Here is the cost/benefit estimate i referred to:

http://www.behavior.org/autism/index.cf ... enefit.cfm

(From Crystal's post):

We will see Dr. Bradstreet this summer for IV chelation and he does not take insurance


Hmm, I wonder why he doesn't take insurance. I mean, he's a good guy who only wants to help little children with autism, right?

Hooey indeed.
Winnie

Guest

Postby Guest » Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:56 am

crystal, I think it's great you have found such a wonderful doctor. I think your story of minimal out-of-pocket expenses with a DAN! doc is the exception rather than the rule. But it's nice to know there are docs out there who are earnestly trying to ease the financial burden on parents.

erik, your crazed ramblings make me beleive that perhaps you are the one in need of a good group home. You could have saved yourself a lot of typing by basically saying that anyone who doesn't agree with you is wrong.

Interesting that you don't know a thing about my kids, yet you can tell me they're sick, have chronic viral issues, and perhaps might be headed for a group home. Was it the dental amalgams I never had that caused my son's "severe" autism? Or wait, the vaccines my second son never had that caused his global delays? Neither of my kids exibit bowel issues or have chronic viral infections. My son doesn't flap, he doesn't toe walk, doesn't tantrum, frequently seeks us out to play, has excellent eye contact, is extremely affectionate and happy, and is beginning to speak. It's not from biomed, so how do you explain it? And for every story like mine, there are parents who'll say that biomed has helped a great deal, and that's GREAT, but your story isn't my son's story. Just because we haven't had identical journeys doesn't make me any less entitled to a voice. This forum should be an open exchange of opinions and ideas, not a dictatorship of them.

LM


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