Quackwatch

Discuss autism theories, media stories, and efforts to put ASD on the government agenda here.

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Elis mom
Posts: 55
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 11:04 am

Quackwatch

Postby Elis mom » Mon Apr 03, 2006 2:03 pm

:lol:
Last edited by Elis mom on Tue Apr 04, 2006 12:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

LittleManzMamma
Posts: 160
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:21 pm

Postby LittleManzMamma » Mon Apr 03, 2006 2:29 pm

Before everyone becomes overly alarmed and freaks out (though we should ALWAYS do all the homework we can and proceed with caution), please take a look at the following...

There is more than one Stephen B. Edelson, and the one mentioned on the "quackwatch" site is NOT - I repeat, NOT - the same Stepehn B. Edelson that is a staff member of ARI (Autism Research Institute).

LittleManzMamma
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Postby LittleManzMamma » Mon Apr 03, 2006 2:33 pm

CORRECTION: Stephen M Edelson is a staffmember of ARI, not to be confused with Stephen B Edelson.

LittleManzMamma
Posts: 160
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:21 pm

Postby LittleManzMamma » Mon Apr 03, 2006 3:13 pm

Hi Eli's Mom-

I browsed over the quackwatch site and saved it for future reference. Thank you for sharing it.

From there, I couldn't help but wonder where you stood on biomedical treatment, so I looked into some of your past postings and found the answer...

You, like me and many others, understand the difficulty - perhaps even an impossibility for some - of balancing hope with ojbectivity. I have just begun to learn about and persue biomedical treatment for my son (starting w/ least invasive, safest ones) and plan to move forward very aggressively in some areas (diet) while he is youg, but very slowly on other treatments ... just my preference. In the end, we all have to learn as much as we can - both the good and the bad/the ups and the downs - and then we have to listen to our own intuition to guide us. Such is life in general, really.

As I consider the whole idea of hope influencing what we see and do, for both good and potentially bad, I can't help but think of somehting that Oprah once said that I will always remember:

"You don't get what you want in life; you get what you believe"

BTDT
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Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 8:02 pm

Postby BTDT » Mon Apr 03, 2006 3:24 pm

This site is autism specific:

http://www.autism-watch.org/

srinath
Posts: 941
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 12:33 pm

he references that

Postby srinath » Mon Apr 03, 2006 4:04 pm

You see he references dmpsbackfire.com as his site about DMPS truth site ... the whole dmpsbackfire site is a proof of how powerful dmps is at pulling mercury out of a "bound" amalgam when it was given as a IV. essentially traces of it end up in the salica and that is enough to pull enough mercury out of a solid bound amalgam and deposit it elsewhere to cause serious harm.
Now either mercury does harm or not, you cannot say that it does no harm, but when its pulled out of the amalgam by dmps then it dos all this harm. Then again bound amalgam cannot come loose ... that means its not bound, and that is a testament to how powerful dmps is. Of course she was given dmps by a dentist inspite of having amalgams and of course none of the protocoal were followed. in short, dmpsbackfire shows that mercury is a toxin, and dmps gets it out.
Cool.
Srinath.

rlneub
Posts: 1872
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 6:37 pm

Postby rlneub » Mon Apr 03, 2006 4:42 pm

Hmmm,

Nonrecommended Information Sources. DAN! is second on the list.

WOW. How about a poll. Lets ask if you did the DAN! protocol and it
1. Significantly Helped
2. Moderately Helped
3. Helped
4. Did nothing
5. Hurt
6. Significantly Hurt

We have a lot of members here. Why not put DAN! to the test or put Quackwatch to the test.

We could also do the same for chelation.


Oh and by the way. Quackwatch also has its own issues. I only looked about 15 minutes to find this.

http://www.thenhf.com/newsflash_02.htm
http://www.quackpotwatch.org/opinionpie ... arrett.htm
http://www.quackpotwatch.org/opinionpie ... stCase.htm
http://www.biobran.org/critics/quackwatch.html
http://www.feingold.org/indexx1.html

respect
Posts: 2402
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 3:52 am

Postby respect » Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:03 pm

Oh my God, does anyone really BELIEVE anything they read on Quackwatch. Now cmon people, i know you are too smart for this (mild expletive deleted)! Its known who his "funders" are, and its well known what quackwatch's motives are.

sheesh

Alex's mom
Posts: 1626
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 2:11 pm

Postby Alex's mom » Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:10 pm

I'll start:
DAN! protocol: diet helped (a lot :) )
chelation: no help
M-B12 : helped
supplements: no help
Sidenote: we have scaled back on our supps (down to a MVI/mineral, calcium, B12, probiotic) and have put chelation on hold and my son is having a very good stretch. Just an observation.
I don't know if you can "lump" together all of DAN! since the interventions are so diverse and for any given child some may help some may not.

However- this board is very skewed pro-biomed, so I don't think you will find a very balanced answer in your poll. People who abandon or are not interested in trying biomed are unlikely to stick around and answer the poll.

Alex's mom

srinath
Posts: 941
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 12:33 pm

Mine is

Postby srinath » Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:19 pm

My observations are ...

Chelation - NDF and Liverlife so far - and helped moderately.

Diet - nothing.

Suppliments - helped very little.

Dr Geier and Dr Hines (My dan docs) have been excellent. if pediatricians were that knowledgeable and articulate there will be no need for DAN.

Quackwatch and several others are really pharma shills or ABA shills or someone who profits from our kids disabilities one way or another. Either selling drugs to them or some other 1/2 effective treatment to "help" them.

Chelation being ineffective is fine, the ones that are here and shooting down chelation - I would like to know what their personal opinion is based on. I ahve asked several times before, but not heard anythign of value.
Cool.
Srinath.

Elis mom
Posts: 55
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 11:04 am

Postby Elis mom » Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:33 pm

BTDT-
Thanks for the additional link.
Last edited by Elis mom on Tue Apr 04, 2006 12:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

LittleManzMamma
Posts: 160
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:21 pm

Postby LittleManzMamma » Mon Apr 03, 2006 6:05 pm

Although I still believe that it is always wise to proceed cautiously and not take new avenues of treatment lightly without considering all of the potential consequences, I will always be more inclined to be suspicious of somone/entity based on their "come-from" or intent...

For instance, ARI, DAN!, CAN, etc. are non-profit organizations commited to finding answers about what causes autism as well as helping the children and families affected. In other words, their "come-from" is a good place, and their intentions are noble... though this doesn't make them automatically right either - and they themselves acknowledge that more work needs to be done...

Dr. Barrett, on the other hand, runs a site called "quackwatch" - the title itself tells me that his "come-from" is less that pure and that his intention is to discredit others rather than truly protect the public.

... just my personal insight/opinion (which I never seem to be short of!) :oops:

http://www.quackpotwatch.org/opinionpie ... arrett.htm

Dana
Posts: 2778
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 4:22 pm

Postby Dana » Mon Apr 03, 2006 6:27 pm

I would never call a parent doing biomedical desperate to find a cure. I am desperate for answers, I am desperate for research, I am desperate to meet others who are doing biomedical and learn from them, I am desperate to let others know what has helped my son, but I am not desperate for a cure. I do not have a DAN! doctor, I do not "shell out huge amounts of $$$$" into a false "cure". My son sees a pediatrician who has taken the time, his own unpaid personal time, to research DAN! protocol, to research Neubrander, to research chelation and viral therapy. This pediatrician has no motivation other than to heal my son's leaky gut, to remove the toxins that have been detected through hair and blood analysis, to remove the viruses that have been detected through blood draws. This is not a deserate parent trying to cure autism, I am a mother trying to remove lead from my sons blood, trying to remove HHV6 from his gut, trying to prevent asthma, eczema, and obsessive behaviors that are a result of eating cheese and crackers. I am desperate to be allowed to walk this road without having to be called desperate. I am far from it, but hey, I am determined and I am a fighter. I was always the kid who never spoke up, who sat afraid to speak up, afraid to ask questions, I have learned the hard way that I have strength, that I have a voice, that I have a brain and that I can make a difference. I really am not trying to put down anyones belief, that really honestly is not me, my mother was raised by nuns so I was brought up with very strong values and taught to respect everyone, to love everyone, and to see with my heart, I just feel so hurt to be called desperate and after a thousand times I just felt like it was time to speak up for myself. We also do 40+ hours of ABA weekly, school f/t, occupational therapy, physical therapy, speech therapy, play dates and outings.......there is no ONE answer, it all works together. And thank god I have the choice.
Dana

LittleManzMamma
Posts: 160
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:21 pm

Postby LittleManzMamma » Mon Apr 03, 2006 6:30 pm

Hi Eli's mom --

I wanted to respond directly to your comment about the motivation of many DAN! doctors. For starters, to some extent you are probably quite right - as much as I hate to admit it. However, I think it is very important to distinguish DAN! the organization and its approaches [they are getting away from using 'protocol']) from DAN! doctors. You are right, any MD, DO, etc. can claim to be a DAN! doctor, and some of them might well be doing it largely because they can expand their practices/profits by doing so.

However, this is true of ANY and EVERY medical or professional organization and its members or subscribers. This reminds me of an old joke my real estate instructor used to tell: What do you call a doctor who graduated at the bottom of his class?? You call him doctor!

So the fact is that doctors are people too. Some are clearly better than others. This applies equally to conventional/mainstream doctors and those who practice "alternative" medicine. Some doctors care and listen and work together with patients to help them; some doctors rush you in and out and write prescriptions. Unfortunately, we have to advocate for ourselves, "shop around" and follow our own intuition with ANY doctor... just as it would be wise to do should do when chosing a home builder, plumber, realtor, babysitter, etc.

This is precisely why I chose to drive more than an hour to the DAN! doctor we chose, rather than using the one that is 5 minutes from our house. We chose the doctor that we did, ultimately, because he specializes almost exclusively in ASD and has done so for 10+ years. And it only takes an initial appointment to see that he is truly commited to what he does and is careful to get as much information about each child individually -- hence the 30+ pages he requires that we fill out prior to our first visit.

Anyway, I can understand and respect your skepticism and resistance. All of this information is relatively knew and overwhelming, and much of it is scary to consider, and it is scary to accept that what was believed to be true for more than 50 years in conventional circles might well be dead wrong. It is just as scary as the "conventional" medications that have been prescribed to my husband over the years to treat his Rheumatoid Arthritis... many with "side effects" including heart failure and death. As someone else mentioned in a post to you a while back, I would never judge you for chosing to avoid biomedical treatment for your child -- and clearly I don't know you, your child or the specifics of his issues, how long he/she's been affected etc. No one can make that choice but you - nor should they.

I wish you the very best with whichever path you choose...as I also wish the best to those who chose the one you have not/will not.

rlneub
Posts: 1872
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 6:37 pm

Postby rlneub » Mon Apr 03, 2006 6:30 pm

I agree there are bad DAN docs. We are disturbed at the lack of training/schooling required to wear the name, but at the same time there are more DAN! docs who do good for kids.

Even in traditional medicine there are those docs who are not the best. To point blame at the whole organization is gross overstatement.

Elis mom
Posts: 55
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 11:04 am

Postby Elis mom » Mon Apr 03, 2006 6:39 pm

:wink:
Last edited by Elis mom on Tue Apr 04, 2006 12:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

Dana
Posts: 2778
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 4:22 pm

Postby Dana » Mon Apr 03, 2006 6:46 pm

Elis Mom,

I do think you are right to question, with out a doubt you are. I live by the same golden rule, there are no easy answers, must be why I am exhausted everyday, I live for researching LOL!!

Thank you and you should be proud of yourself for seeking answers and questioning everything. I wish you luck,

Blessings,
Dana

LittleManzMamma
Posts: 160
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:21 pm

Postby LittleManzMamma » Mon Apr 03, 2006 6:51 pm

Thank you for this link, it is enlightening and will help me to remember to proceed with caution and not rush into too many things at once. Unfortunately, I feel that often times it is the rush and frenzy that makes us look like quacks... and it also might well undermine some of the benefits, or at the very least make it difficult to determine the true source of them.

BTDT wrote:This site is autism specific:

http://www.autism-watch.org/

LittleManzMamma
Posts: 160
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:21 pm

Postby LittleManzMamma » Mon Apr 03, 2006 7:00 pm

With all due respect, if you did not care whether or not anyone agreed with you, you would not likely be posting this here, nor would you resort to such a tasteless response as quoted below.

[quote="Truthfully, I don't care if anyone agrees with me or not. I was always the one to speak out and to question in the first place.
... Please tell me that was his idea of a joke. I'm sure I have a spare stamp here somewhere...maybe I can be a doctor, too![/quote]

Alex's mom
Posts: 1626
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 2:11 pm

Postby Alex's mom » Mon Apr 03, 2006 7:25 pm

Srinath- "ABA shills" ?!?!? Are you serious :) ?
Dana- I really liked your post and can relate to much of what you've said !
Rick-
Even in traditional medicine there are those docs who are not the best. To point blame at the whole organization is gross overstatement.

I'm so glad to "hear " you say this. A while back I clearly remember some of your posts getting pretty sarcastic at mainstream medicine as a whole. There are good and bad apples on either side of the fence, and it seems that we all agree with that.
My problem with mainstream is that they tend not to listen.
My problem with DAN! docs (other than their fees - LOL) is that they are sometimes more "DAN" than "docs". I want to meet someone who can think logically and critically, who does research, who knows biochemistry and physiology (and not from a 2 day conference brush-up on some pathways) and is able to think both outside and inside the box. It seems like right now most people are polarized - either completely outside (not a good thing IMO) or completely inside.
Alex's mom


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