Autistic girl dies at hands of her mother

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LittleManzParents
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Postby LittleManzParents » Wed May 24, 2006 1:44 am

Winnie wrote:Kevin Leitch dedicated a blog to the topic -- I found it touching, especially the video of his own daughter at the end. Maybe we can learn from Katie, even though she's gone.

http://www.kevinleitch.co.uk/wp/index.php?p=371


Hi there, Pooh! Funny - I couldn't sleep (you'd think I'd learn not to drink coffee before going to bed) so I popped on and realized that the last post on the Support and Ed side of the board was mine from earlier :oops: ... then I thought, 'I wonder where Winnie is - haven't seen her lately and I know she tends to be up late'...

then, I came over to the forbidden board of debate, and here you are! :)

I won't bother to dissect his blog (it's pointless to do so), but I will say that his video and his daughter are certainly beautiful... and the music certainly helped to evoke the emotions he intended it to... just when I thought I was done crying for the week.

Thanks for posting.

dgdavis64
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Postby dgdavis64 » Wed May 24, 2006 9:33 am

I have to comment on someone who said " How many children have to be sacrificed on the alter for "curing autism?"

I'm not sure about other parents, but my kids are mercury/heavy metal poisoned, I'm treating their illness, not trying to "cure autism."

Autism and mercury poisoning are 2 seperate issues and should be treated as such.

Beware of the pharma trollbot shills posting from anonymous proxy servers

LittleManzParents
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Postby LittleManzParents » Wed May 24, 2006 9:48 am

Hi Diane,

Someone said in another unrelated thread once that we need to be like ducks and learn to let some things just roll off our backs. I believe she was referring to stares in public by people who don't understand our children's behavior.

I would like to extend that sentiment to those who pass judgement and insist that any attempt to give our children a shot at self-sufficience is "wrong", "sacrificial", or "unaccepting".

Though it is important to keep your mind, eyes and ears open for the purpose of educating yourself and making informed decisions, it can be harmful to let the negativity sink in. All it does is cause more self doubt and hurt, when there is already plenty of that to go around.

What killed that little girl was not the little biomedical treatment she might have been receiving. Undeniably tragic situation, but to assume that it was directly related to the biomedical path her mother chose, or the autismspeaks video, is simply unfair. None of us have enough information to come to that conclusion. And, those who fear or disagree with biomedical treatment will naturally see it as an opportunity to be validate their views. It is human nature to fight to be right - regardless of how much harm might come of it.

So, good morning... and... QUACK, Quack, Quack!! :wink:
Last edited by LittleManzParents on Wed May 24, 2006 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

Winnie
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Postby Winnie » Wed May 24, 2006 10:58 am

Undeniably tragic situation, but to assume that it was directly related to the biomedical path her mother chose (and nothing else) is simply unfair. None of us have enough information to come to that conclusion. And, those who fear or disagree with biomedical treatment will naturally see it as an opportunity to be validate their views. It is human nature to fight to be right - regardless of how much harm might come of it.


I agree that it is undeniably tragic. I don't pretend to know the mother's motivation or state of mind, but I didn't gleen from the link I posted that Katie's death was directly related to biomed...that really wasn't the overall theme I reacted to.

I won't be surprised, however, if the mother's eventual defense attributes her state of mind to the "despair" of seeing her daughter "suffer" in the hopeless abyss of autism. We will just have to stay tuned.

Food for thought though...if a daycare worker or even stranger had killed Katie with a plastic bag, do you think there would be much compassion for the killer? Afterall, we wouldn't know their state of mind or "snap" issue either.
Last edited by Winnie on Wed May 24, 2006 11:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
Winnie
"Make it a powerful memory, the happiest you can remember."

Winnie
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Postby Winnie » Wed May 24, 2006 11:04 am

Hi Diane,

Someone said in another unrelated thread once that we need to be like ducks and learn to let some things just roll off our backs. I believe she was referring to stares in public by people who don't understand our children's behavior.

I would like to extend that sentiment to those who pass judgement and insist that any attempt to give our children a shot at self-sufficience is "wrong", "sacrificial", or "unaccepting".


Hey, that reminds me...I was thinking about that "judgement" thing when I read this in the support forum on the "Will they ever understand me thread:"

I'd just like to mention a little girl in my son's preschool class. Everytime I'm around her my heart just BREAKS! She sits in her chair and stims the same way Luke used to and I just want to breakdown in tears everytime I see her. It's funny you mentioned seeing what the NT kids do and how far behind you think yours are. I do that sometimes to when I see the NT kids do something so cute. But the little girl in Lukes class just haunts me for some reason. I dread going to any function his class does because it gets worse and worse each time I see her. I just know I'm going to burst out in tears one of these times but I just can't help it. I've given her mom some biomed info but she works in a Drs office and is so intrenched in the belief that nothing can be done to help these kids. I just keep her in my prayers.


Yep, there is plenty of judgement to go around. In all directions.
Winnie
"Make it a powerful memory, the happiest you can remember."

Winnie
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Postby Winnie » Wed May 24, 2006 11:08 am

Autism and mercury poisoning are 2 seperate issues and should be treated as such.


And hey, I agree with this also. My issues usually revolve around the autism IS mercury poisoning theories.
Winnie
"Make it a powerful memory, the happiest you can remember."

Mary
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Postby Mary » Wed May 24, 2006 11:20 am

I find it very sad that bloggers and others who do not know this woman are posting their opinions at length as though they have actual insight or intimate knowledge about this tragedy. When this woman goes to trial, assuming she will, the information will come out. Until then, people speculating on her motives, her situation, her services, her feelings about autism, her feelings about motherhood, or her mental health status, are engaging in just that: idle speculation.

Winnie
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Postby Winnie » Wed May 24, 2006 11:40 am

I find it very sad that bloggers and others who do not know this woman are posting their opinions at length as though they have actual insight or intimate knowledge about this tragedy.


Anytime a crime like this occurs people speculate, especially the media, ad nauseum. Would the speculation make you sad if a stranger had snatched Katie and murdered her?
Winnie
"Make it a powerful memory, the happiest you can remember."

LittleManzParents
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Postby LittleManzParents » Wed May 24, 2006 11:54 am

Winnie wrote:
I agree that it is undeniably tragic. I don't pretend to know the mother's motivation or state of mind, but I didn't gleen from the link I posted that Katie's death was directly related to biomed...that really wasn't the overall theme I reacted to.
That's good to know.



Food for thought though...if a daycare worker or even stranger had killed Katie with a plastic bag, do you think there would be much compassion for the killer? Afterall, we wouldn't know their state of mind or "snap" issue either.
Siiigh. I think that what you are referring to as "compassion" for a "killer" is probably more acurately called "confusion, shock and disbelief". Just because one is not shouting out and calling names or pointing fingers at the straw on the camel's back, does not mean that they condone her actions AT ALL or that they somehow find it forgivable or understandable under her circumstances. The biggest outpouring of compassion I have seen/read has been for Katie - as it should be.

May Katie rest in peace.

2boys2
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Postby 2boys2 » Wed May 24, 2006 12:01 pm

i just had to look at winnies link, i told myself i would never venture to the other side as it seems so foreign to me. i found it very sad and angry, so many critical and uncaring judgements about this women who none of them knew. the world is full of judgements that only God can really make. yes his daughter is beautiful but so is my son sitting here with me asking for"my turn". a voice, a way to communicate, every right of every child regardless of their disability. god bless all the mothers and fathers of all our children who care so much and bring them mercy no matter what path they choose.
Lisalynn
keeping hope and faith through it all.

srinath
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Where did you get this from Winnie ??

Postby srinath » Wed May 24, 2006 12:05 pm

Winnie wrote:
I'd just like to mention a little girl in my son's preschool class. Everytime I'm around her my heart just BREAKS! She sits in her chair and stims the same way Luke used to and I just want to breakdown in tears everytime I see her. It's funny you mentioned seeing what the NT kids do and how far behind you think yours are. I do that sometimes to when I see the NT kids do something so cute. But the little girl in Lukes class just haunts me for some reason. I dread going to any function his class does because it gets worse and worse each time I see her. I just know I'm going to burst out in tears one of these times but I just can't help it. I've given her mom some biomed info but she works in a Drs office and is so intrenched in the belief that nothing can be done to help these kids. I just keep her in my prayers.




There is another Kid in my son's class and he's 4 (9+ months older than my son) and his parents are clueless. We are working on getting them to check out bio med. I am not going to let kids slip by ... and this story really hurts and yes haunts me ...
I also heard of another case over the weekend where there was a 8 year old girl who was autistic and her 2 brothers 12 and 14 weren't. They all had the same parents.
Cool.
Srinath.

LittleManzParents
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Postby LittleManzParents » Wed May 24, 2006 12:11 pm

Winnie wrote:
Hi Diane,

Someone said in another unrelated thread once that we need to be like ducks and learn to let some things just roll off our backs. I believe she was referring to stares in public by people who don't understand our children's behavior.

I would like to extend that sentiment to those who pass judgement and insist that any attempt to give our children a shot at self-sufficience is "wrong", "sacrificial", or "unaccepting".


Hey, that reminds me...I was thinking about that "judgement" thing when I read this in the support forum on the "Will they ever understand me thread:"

I'd just like to mention a little girl in my son's preschool class. Everytime I'm around her my heart just BREAKS! She sits in her chair and stims the same way Luke used to and I just want to breakdown in tears everytime I see her. It's funny you mentioned seeing what the NT kids do and how far behind you think yours are. I do that sometimes to when I see the NT kids do something so cute. But the little girl in Lukes class just haunts me for some reason. I dread going to any function his class does because it gets worse and worse each time I see her. I just know I'm going to burst out in tears one of these times but I just can't help it. I've given her mom some biomed info but she works in a Drs office and is so intrenched in the belief that nothing can be done to help these kids. I just keep her in my prayers.


Yep, there is plenty of judgement to go around. In all directions.


Qwack-quack.

LM
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Postby LM » Wed May 24, 2006 12:47 pm

The following is from Katie's paternal grandfather - I have also read that Karen's husband has filed for divorce citing mental cruelty:

http://www.pjstar.com/stories/052406/PH ... .033.shtml

Don't blame autism for the death of Katherine McCarron, says her paternal grandfather.
"I am positively revolted when I read quotes that would imply any degree of understanding or hint at condoning the taking of my granddaughter's life," says Michael McCarron, 62, of Indianapolis. " ... I'm dealing with a very straight-forward murder case.

"This was not about autism. This was not about a lack of support."

On May 13, the 3-year-old Morton girl was suffocated with a plastic bag, allegedly at the hands of her mother, Dr. Karen McCarron, 37. The mother has been under suicide watch at the Tazewell County Jail, where she is being held under $2 million bond and faces two counts of first-degree murder.

Michael McCarron called me this week after having read numerous stories about the case, some of which he says point the finger of guilt in the wrong direction. For instance, though polite, he ridiculed the notion of his daughter-in-law's friends who have portrayed her as distraught over a lack of autism treatment in the Peoria area.

"Katie wasn't in central Illinois (until May)," he calmly says. " .... So what programs central Illinois has or doesn't have ... has not one ounce of applicability to (the death of ) Katherine McCarron."

After Katherine was diagnosed with autism almost two years ago, parents Karen and Paul McCarron searched for the best treatment possible. They found two autism-centric schools in Raleigh, N.C.

Karen McCarron could not easily leave her pathologist's job in Peoria. So she remained in the couple's home in Morton and took care of their daughter Emily, now 2. Helping with child care was Karen McCarron's mother, Erna Frank of Morton.

Paul McCarron, an engineer with Caterpillar Inc., transferred to a company outpost in North Carolina. He rented an apartment outside Raleigh, where he resided with Katherine and her paternal grandmother, Gail McCarron of Indianapolis - Michael McCarron's wife of 38 years.

To move to Raleigh, Gail McCarron had to quit her longtime job as a legal secretary in Indianapolis, her husband says.

"It was a sacrifice," he admits. " ... (But) this was not a chore."

He says the elder McCarrons were glad to help Katherine during her 20 months in North Carolina.

"This was our first granddaughter," says Michael McCarron, who'd already had grandsons. "Autism or not, you don't get any more special than that."

The effects of autism range from slight to severe. Its many manifestations most commonly include difficulty in communication, diminished social interaction and resistance to change.

For Katherine, communication was the biggest problem, Michael McCarron says. She could babble words and phrases - such as "I love you" when he held her - but did not have the verbal skills of a typical girl her age.

"An autistic child is a handful," Michael McCarron says. "They are very difficult to train."

Katherine also had difficulty concentrating. And she often would refuse to go to bed at night, preferring instead to stay up late playing with her toys, often her plastic farm animals.

However, unlike many autistic children, she did not frequently act up, he says. She usually followed a daily routine aimed at improving her communication.

In the morning, her grandmother would feed and dress her. By 9 a.m., she'd get Katherine to school, where the girl worked on communication and cognitive skills. At noon, her grandmother would pick up the girl and return home for lunch, maybe even a nap.

Later, the grandmother would drive the girl to another school for further autism treatment. In mid-afternoon, the grandmother would bring her home, where Katherine would work with a tutor.

At 5 p.m., her father would get home from his job.

"That was big party time," Michael McCarron says.

After the trio would eat dinner, father and daughter often would go for a walk. Back at home, they'd play word games intended to help Katherine's development.

Karen McCarron sometimes would fly to North Carolina to visit her husband and daughter. When finances allowed it, Michael McCarron - the manager of an insurance company - would fly down.

He says Katherine loved nothing more than to be outside, so they'd often head to a nearby park.

"I had wonderful times," he says. "She loved the swing and the motion and the wind. I held my hand (out) and she'd come to it, and she would shriek with delight."

Michael McCarron says the scholastic regimen had Katherine progressing. However, this year Karen and Paul McCarron decided they no longer wanted the family to live apart.

"Twenty months apart, that's a long time," Michael McCarron says.

The couple decided that Katherine and her father would move back to Morton in May.

During the move, Paul and Katherine McCarron stopped with their moving van in Indianapolis to drop off his mother and visit overnight with Michael McCarron.

"She lined up her little dolls and talked to each one of them," Michael McCarron says.

That was two weeks ago. That was the last time he saw Katherine.

Michael McCarron declines to talk about why his daughter-in-law might have killed Katherine.

"I promised the police I wouldn't," he says. " ... That'll come out in court."

However, he says no one in the family saw any warning signs from Karen McCarron.

"There was no foretelling," he says in a gasping rush. "Oh my gosh, I wish there was."

He believes in the need for improved services nationwide to treat autism. But he adamantly refutes the rationalizing of Katherine's death as a result of a lack of autism services.

"When people say, 'I can understand that,' I just want to cover my head," he says. "We're not dealing with desperation here. We're not dealing with 'we have to end this child's pain.'

"Having held that little girl in my arms and have her laugh with me or have her clutch me when I gave her raspberries, I can't understand that."

PHIL LUCIANO is a columnist with the Journal Star. He can be reached at pluciano@pjstar.com, 686-3155.


give a mouse a cookie
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Postby give a mouse a cookie » Wed May 24, 2006 12:59 pm

Another perspective on the story.
http://www.raggededgemagazine.com/departments/inclusiondailynews/001083.html

Personally, I don't give a rat's a** what Dr. McCarron was feeling as she took the life of her child. She felt enough guilt/remorse to attempt suicide with an overdose of pills, though she was compelled to dial 911 in time to save her own life. Not so for the life her child.
Now her other daughter and Katie's father will be alone, with terrible memories.
No matter how severe her daughter's autism, there is no excuse for Dr. McCarron's actions that day. We have all had really bad days with our children, NT, autistic or otherwise. There's a spot reserved for Dr. McCarron and all other murderers, and it isn't heaven. Dr. McCarron will never see her daughter's sweet face again, in this world or any other. Yes, I feel this strongly about this story. She had options. She could have divorced her husband and allowed him custody if she felt this way about her daughter. She could have checked herself into a psychiatric unit. She could have done many things rather than murder her child. She didn't. She killed Katie to end her own suffering. Selfish.

May dear, sweet Katie rest in peace.

srinath
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NBot being confrontational

Postby srinath » Wed May 24, 2006 1:15 pm

Winnie wrote:
Autism and mercury poisoning are 2 seperate issues and should be treated as such.


And hey, I agree with this also. My issues usually revolve around the autism IS mercury poisoning theories.


See for the longest time they (CDC, IOM, AAP and other doctors) have been feeding us the line that autism as its diagnosed and defined right now is not and is never and was never mercury poisoning.

I and many others here have seen several cases where it is ... so I am going to pretty much say they need to prove that there are cases that have had nothing to do with mercury. AKA ... never had mercury one way or another at any time now or in the past, hiding or not and still had autism.

Of course curability or reduction in symptoms are entirely different issues, so a case of someone not responding to chelation is just an example of curability or incurability ...
Cool.
Srinath.

LittleManzParents
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Postby LittleManzParents » Wed May 24, 2006 1:26 pm

What the world needs now
Is Love, sweet Love


God bless us all.

LM
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Postby LM » Wed May 24, 2006 2:24 pm

This is not about mercury and it's not about biomed.

I don't know what was going through this woman's head when she decided to kill her child, but I doubt she was thinking about the mercury autism theory when she did it.

Despite the diagnosis of autism, parents still have lots of hope when their kids are diagnosed at 18mos and 2yrs old. You read the Catherine Maurice or Karen Seriousi book and think a year of intensive biomed and behavioral therapy and my child will be recovered. But then a year passes and you see you're not much closer to recovery than you were a year ago. The gaps seem wider, and it's like getting an autism diagnosis all over again. You grieve all over again. You wonder why your child's story is not turning out like the children you've been reading about. You start to realize that you're in this for the long haul. Some parents can rally and do what they need to do to prepare for the years ahead. Some can't get past the grieving. Some parents try treatments they would have scoffed at the year before. Some find themselves cringing at famous last words uttered a year ago: "well thank god my child doesn't do_______" only to find that's all their child does. I'm not defending this woman, I think what she did was awful. But this is not a simple black and white issue.

Every parent needs to get to a place where they can feel that autism isn't the end of the world. It doesn't happen overnight. There are comments being posted elsewhere by young parents of asd kids who are new to the diagnosis - some of the comments are very foolish and are intended by some bloggers to make the rest of us parents with autistic children look like monsters. I said a lot of stupid things a year ago, and I still put my foot in my mouth more times than not. But we are not a static group, we're constantly changing our minds and our perception of autism and all it entails based on our own experiences and the experiences of others.

I for one know that Katie's death has changed me.

Winnie
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Postby Winnie » Wed May 24, 2006 2:27 pm

i told myself i would never venture to the other side as it seems so foreign to me. i found it very sad and angry, so many critical and uncaring judgements about this women who none of them knew.


Anyone here see the movie The United States of Leland by any chance? It was released a couple of years ago, probably before many of you may have even known your child would eventually be diagnosed with autism.

In a nutshell, a teen murders (brutal multiple stabbing) his neighbor, a six-year old with autism, to end the child's "suffering." The plot revolves around the teen being a "victim" -- his being so sensitive and insightful and all to recognize this child's suffering. The viewer is certainly led to see the killer in a compassionate light, now that the viewer understands the "reasons" for his actions.

Movies and media shape how the public views any disability (even if it is fiction). And the angle on this one was sickening. You can read the plot here:

http://www.paramountclassics.com/leland/main.html

Or you can find it on the bargain table in a video store (it was a sucky movie anyway).

BTW, ManzP, I noticed you edited your sentence after I had already quoted it and responded. Your addition of the autism speaks video in your edit did jog my memory in regard to US of Leland though, thanx!
Winnie
"Make it a powerful memory, the happiest you can remember."

dgdavis64
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Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 11:51 pm

Postby dgdavis64 » Wed May 24, 2006 3:13 pm

Winnie wrote:
I'd just like to mention a little girl in my son's preschool class. Everytime I'm around her my heart just BREAKS! She sits in her chair and stims the same way Luke used to and I just want to breakdown in tears everytime I see her. It's funny you mentioned seeing what the NT kids do and how far behind you think yours are. I do that sometimes to when I see the NT kids do something so cute. But the little girl in Lukes class just haunts me for some reason. I dread going to any function his class does because it gets worse and worse each time I see her. I just know I'm going to burst out in tears one of these times but I just can't help it. I've given her mom some biomed info but she works in a Drs office and is so intrenched in the belief that nothing can be done to help these kids. I just keep her in my prayers.


Yep, there is plenty of judgement to go around. In all directions.



Am I reading Latin or Greek here? What in this statement above can be misconstrued as "judgemental?"


Yeah, LittleManz quack, quack, quack :wink:

Beware of the pharma trollbot shills posting from anonymous proxy servers

BTDT
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Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 8:02 pm

Postby BTDT » Wed May 24, 2006 3:25 pm

What in this statement above can be misconstrued as "judgemental?"


Let's see, you "dread" seeing her, I bet that would make her parents and the little girl feel good if they knew that. And this little girl is just so awful that you want to burst into tears every time you see her.

But if they would only listen to you and try biomed, that poor little girl would be saved.

It makes me sick, and mad, to think that someone might be thinking that while looking at my precious and beautiful child.


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