Debate on acceptance/treatment

Discuss autism theories, media stories, and efforts to put ASD on the government agenda here.

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give a mouse a cookie
Posts: 143
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 12:40 pm

Postby give a mouse a cookie » Tue May 30, 2006 12:16 pm

LMP-
Yeah, you're right. Some people have no interest in changing their point of view, and I am definitely one of them. And, you'll be delighted to know that I, for one, will no longer rise to the obvious baits.
I'm outta here, off to greener, more accepting pastures.
It's a shame, though, that something as simple as acceptance could be so complex for some people to grasp. Especially considering what real, live, communicative autistic individuals have to say about the matter.
It is also a shame that this particular board has become one that only truly welcomes those who do biomed interventions; even the most invasive and painful interventions are considered to be mainstream here.
I am indeed starting a new forum, though it will have to wait until after the in-laws visit. I've got a lot on my plate already.
For anyone interested, I will begin a new thread in a few weeks with a link to the new forum.
Later.
:D

Mary
Posts: 472
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 8:28 am

Postby Mary » Tue May 30, 2006 12:20 pm

Conversely, it is my right and privilege to defend those parents not searching for a cure for autism; including myself.


I'm doing some biomed, but I'm not searching for a cure for autism. I'm just trying to help my kiddo with his digestive problems, be as happy as he can be, and be taught using the methods that are best for him.

The people searching for cures are medical researchers. There's certainly more research now into autism than ever before, though not as much as cancer, and many other conditions. The more we know, the better.

GAMAC's post reminded me of something a parent of a child with Down Syndrome said to me a long time ago. She said it was easier to have a child with Down Syndrome in the sense that you knew exactly what it was, you knew what caused it and didn't cause it, and, while there is a spectrum of functioning, you had at least an inkling of what the future might hold. Children with Down Syndrome, of course, have been pushing the boundaries, doing things that people didn't think they would do 20 years ago, such as graduating with a regular high school diploma and going to college. But I think I know what she meant: there are a lot of gray areas in autism. I think that's what a lot of the posts here are saying.

In the future, medical science may even have a different "label" for many of our children, other than autism, once they are able to pinpoint discrete causes for the collection of symptoms we lump together and call autism now. Some of our kids will continue to have autism, but some may have a different label.

I have both acceptance and a desire for the best treatments/education for all my kids(NT too)! I suspect that all of us really do, even though we have very different (but all valid) ideas of what that means. :D

LittleManzParents
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Postby LittleManzParents » Tue May 30, 2006 12:32 pm

give a mouse a cookie wrote:LMP-
Yeah, you're right. Some people have no interest in changing their point of view, and I am definitely one of them. And, you'll be delighted to know that I, for one, will no longer rise to the obvious baits.
I'm outta here, off to greener, more accepting pastures.
It's a shame, though, that something as simple as acceptance could be so complex for some people to grasp. Especially considering what real, live, communicative autistic individuals have to say about the matter.
It is also a shame that this particular board has become one that only truly welcomes those who do biomed interventions; even the most invasive and painful interventions are considered to be mainstream here.
I am indeed starting a new forum, though it will have to wait until after the in-laws visit. I've got a lot on my plate already.
For anyone interested, I will begin a new thread in a few weeks with a link to the new forum.
Later.
:D


Oh boy. First, let me say that I will not be "delighted" that you will "no longer rise to the obvious baits". I consider myself a moderate when it comes to the politics of autism (and politics in general), and an open-minded individual. I happen to genuinely appreciate different points of view - even though I don't always agree with them. Winnie, one of the more controversial posters on this forum is a great example (forgive me, Winnie, for using you as an example). . . although I don't always agree with her "tone" or "come from", I have found many of the questions she raises to be quite valid and thought provoking. Never mind her quick wit and the energy it must take to quote people so efficiently! :wink:

Having said that, I will be "delighted" if leaving us poor souls behind brings you peace, a sense of belonging, and a sense of purpose and self-acceptance to a degree that you will not feel so personally threatened or attacked.

Alex's mom
Posts: 1626
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 2:11 pm

Postby Alex's mom » Tue May 30, 2006 12:35 pm

GMC:
I think there are a lot of great points in this thread. I really don't think acceptance is that simple a concept to internalize and I bet it means different things to different people. It was interesting to me to see other people's perspectve on this, even though the biomed/cure issue somehow got caught up in the mix.
Alex's mom

Joey'smom
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Postby Joey'smom » Tue May 30, 2006 1:08 pm

All I know is that after interventions such as ABA and biomed, my son is radically happier than he was 6 months ago. Before he was raging, throwing hour-long tearful meltdown tantrums. Now he's happy, conversing, enjoying life, e tc. I feel biomed and our intereventions have brought him to be who is truly IS - a bright, engaged, joyful exhuberant little boy. I accepted him before and I accept him now -- but it was clear he needed help.

I fear that had we left his consitpation untreated, he would have undoubtedly suffered from a bowel obstruction - possibly a fistula - or worse. There is NO way in hell I was going to just let that go and just accept it.

And as far as it being separate from his autism, I just find that hard to believe, as the two developed simultaneously.
Joey, 10 yrs., PDD-NOS was our last dx
GFCF, Yasko, ABA
Hoping to get to RDI

dgdavis64
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Postby dgdavis64 » Tue May 30, 2006 1:27 pm

give a mouse a cookie wrote:Diane-
I cannot believe you are still going on about the whole issue of Kev leaving the hypothetical blindness alone until his daughter would hypothetically be old enough to have some say in the matter for herself. Any surgery carries risk. Maybe Kev's point is that his daughter's hypothetical blindness is not worth risking loss of life as she hypothetically knows it, and that maybe she would be just as happy blind. Luckily, Kev doesn't have to rely on your advice when it comes to caring for his children.
And blindness is not the end of the world. I have several blind friends who are quite successful and happy with their lives. Incidentally, two of them are attorneys, one blind since birth, another blinded in his early twenties by a freak accident. They both completed law school and passed Bar exams blind. Years ago, we asked our friend George, blind since birth, if he would want to see, if he were ever given the opportunity. He told us his world was pretty full already, and that he would need to weigh the risks and do some serious thinking, should the opportunity ever present itself. He was a drummer in a local band, and actually wondered aloud if he would be able to drum as well with sight, because of obvious visual distractions. Something to ponder. In short, it's not as cut and dried as you think. This was Kev's point about blindness (I think) and other disabilities. It is a part of a whole person and if you remove a part, you may end up damaging the whole.
And yes, I would still defend Kevin's position, even though you personally don't agree with him.
Is that really all you take offense with in regards to Kev and other acceptance people? Because that's about the only thing I've seen you post on regarding Kevin and his blog. If you disagree with Kevin alone, try some of the other sites listed on the Hub. Or don't--your choice.
It is your right and privilege to defend all parents who practice all manner of biomedical interventions.
Conversely, it is my right and privilege to defend those parents not searching for a cure for autism; including myself.



I'm not searching/trying/looking to cure autism. I'm treating my children for the heavy metal/mercury poisoning that resulted from their liver not producing enough gluathione to detox the overload of metals they received with their vaccines.

Guess what MY SON would be doing right now if I had ACCEPTED what the drug pusher (Dr) told me at the time of his DX?

He'd be sitting on the floor banging his head for who knows how long. Running (on tip toes)around flapping his hands screeching at the top of his voice.
Constantly making this humming sound covering his ears. Lining up everything he gets his hands on.
Putting his hands/fingers in front of his face watching them go back and forth.
Oh yeah, and he'd be on Risperdal, a very dangerous, untested drug (for kids)


So instead of swinging in the swing, sliding down the slide, playing with his trucks, playing with his wiffle ball and bat, playing with his plastic golf clubs trying to hit the ball, chasing after the bubbles I'm blowing, bouncing on the excercize ball, playing with his puzzles that are 25 pieces and putting them together with no problem, trying to say Rojo for Red in Spanish like Dora, do you SEE where I'm going here?

Am I glad I didn't "just accept" what the so-called Dr told me? You bet your sweet cookies I am. Was Luke more happy in his own little world? I don't know but at least when I ask him a question, now, he does try to answer me.
Someone has to speak for the children who actually are toxic. It would've be SO MUCH EASIER (and less expensive) if I had "just accepted" my kids like they were. But their quality of life is SO MUCH better! Thank God I didn't "just accept" and take the easy way out.




As far as the Kevin thing, I'm not on the same wavelength with someone who would hypothetically or not leave his daughter blind PERIOD! I just don't respect someone who would do that to their child when it's not necessary. Everything has a certain amount of risk, just look at all the people flocking to get the lasik eye surgery so they won't have to wear eyeglasses anymore. It's our responsiblity as parents to give our kids the best chance in this world for a good life. If it's within or grasp to make things better for our kids, we should do what we have to do to make it so.
Again, NOT the easy way out.

Chelating my kids is not a selfish thing I'm doing for myself to make my life easier (ha!) as Kevin implied, it's a sacrifice and hardship that I'm
making now to invest in a better future for my kids. I have to do what's necessary to make sure they're as independant as they can possibly be as adults. This doesn't involve sitting and banging your head on the wall. Sorry.
Last edited by dgdavis64 on Tue May 30, 2006 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Beware of the pharma trollbot shills posting from anonymous proxy servers

livsparents
Posts: 1629
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Postby livsparents » Tue May 30, 2006 1:30 pm

give a mouse a cookie wrote:LMP-
Yeah, you're right. Some people have no interest in changing their point of view, and I am definitely one of them. And, you'll be delighted to know that I, for one, will no longer rise to the obvious baits.
I'm outta here, off to greener, more accepting pastures.
It's a shame, though, that something as simple as acceptance could be so complex for some people to grasp. Especially considering what real, live, communicative autistic individuals have to say about the matter.
It is also a shame that this particular board has become one that only truly welcomes those who do biomed interventions; even the most invasive and painful interventions are considered to be mainstream here.
I am indeed starting a new forum, though it will have to wait until after the in-laws visit. I've got a lot on my plate already.
For anyone interested, I will begin a new thread in a few weeks with a link to the new forum.
Later.
:D


I have no interest in changing YOUR opinions...

I do not feel that this forum is for EXCLUSIVELY biomed, I find that people most often come here for biomed advise however.

The reason that these 'painful and invasive' therapies are considered mainstream here is because most to ALL of the therapies that biomed puts forth are NOT even considered by the mainstream. These people need somewhere to go where they will not feel judged.

I'm sorry that biomed is the overarching agenda here, it just happens to be the case. Just as if you went into a forum with a predominantly gay population with a Christian agenda, you would almost have to expect hostility from some, acceptance from others. There is an absolutley polarizing question here, whether autism is treatable. To take the negative side of this issue and not expect a backlash here, I feel is unreasonable.

Anyway, I hope that I have not contributed to your exodus, I feel that I have 'reasonable' questions to ask you, If you notice, I CAN be subtally, subtotallly, sub...slightly swayed on issues, but my core remains, I feel that autism can be treated, if not completely, mildly, WITHOUT threat to my childs physical or mental well being. That view WILL NOT change.

I wish you the best and I MAY stop by your post to continue lively debate...provided I am not labeled a chid abuser :wink:
Bill

dgdavis64
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Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 11:51 pm

Postby dgdavis64 » Tue May 30, 2006 1:34 pm

LittleManzParents wrote:I can't help but think about the post on the support side about "taking a step away". Maybe it's time to do that in this case? To each his own.
We can "accept" the fact that we all see things through our own filters and some will be be more open to different points of views than others will be... but ultimately, we are probably better off "accepting" that no matter how much we argue, it is unlikely that we will get everyone to agree with us. I'm not sure I'd want to - not completely anyway.

Or... we can just keep on going like this: Giddy-up, dead horsey, Giddy-up!


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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littlebopeep
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Postby littlebopeep » Tue May 30, 2006 2:17 pm

GMAC, I wish that you would not leave. Threads with your and Winnie's participation usually get the most posts and pages, so even if people are arguing with you, they're obviously interested in the discussions you engender. As for me, even though I don't post a lot, I read almost everything and reflect on what is said here.

So I ask you to reconsider. Please come back after your "vacation" from AutismWeb.
Fred, 7, NT
Barney, 5, autism

mom_of_an_autie
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Postby mom_of_an_autie » Tue May 30, 2006 2:22 pm

Alex's mom wrote:Well, I'm not at my thinking best (2-nd to sleep deprivation) and may be missing nuances, but to me the acceptance issue is somewhat artifically dichotomized. I think it's more of a continuum where we each find our comfort zone, depending on our personality, the severity of our child's ASD, prior response to intervention, strength of our support system etc


mom_of_an_autie:
Which is EXACTLY why I was challenging her stance on this issue. You can't just say you accept your child but because others choose to follow a different path than yours that makes them unaccepting of their children.

To me, accepting Alex's PDD has meant understanding (I mean REALLY understanding) his unique blend of strengths and weaknesses, and analyzing the obstacles he may (and likely will) encounter as well as always trying to revisit my strategy to help him with those obstacles. No point sugar coating it- his shot at a quality of life (by this I mean having and being able to make real choices, having meaningful relationships, living independently etc) is significantly diminished. I see it as our job to do everything we can to give him as many tools as possible in order for him to come closer to some of the competences we have and take for granted. I love him unconditionally no matter what his outcome, and I think our efforts in helping him may well be lifelong as autism is lifelong.

mom_of_an_autie:
Thats why ALL interventions in my opinion are about helping our children lead healthy, happy lives. Whether I agree with all of them or not doesnt really matter. I do with MY child what his father and I decide is right.



I accept his autism the same way I would have accepted any other diagnosis that may have come our way. If he had juvenile diabetes, I would have aimed to get his blood sugars as close to normal as possible (understanding that this may sometimes not happen, and still loving him just the same). OK, I see the flaws in my comparison, but I'm just like my son-we think best by analogies :). I can't imagine any adults with diabetes objecting that their parents tried to "fix" them by intensive insulin therapy and didn't accept their blood sugars of 400 as who they are.

mom_of_an_autie:
I wouldnt say this was a bad analogy. Sure our kids won't die without speech but I know for my son he prefers to be able to communicate to get his needs met. Maybe I am wrong I just dont see him saying to me in 20 years "gee mom I really wish you had not done something to stop my explosive diahrrea, leaky gut or inability to communicate with you."



I remain unimpressed when I read how some of the very high functioning adults with autism object to a parent trying to help their child with autism gain some much needed life skills. I read Jim Sinclair's piece and thought that he gets caught up in an over-simplified web of semantics and wording, which can be easily twisted every which way. I don't think all ASD people think like that just because some ASD people do (after all, do all of us NT's think the same all the time?), and I don't think our job is that different from what parents of NT kids do- it's just that our work is so much harder and less clearly mapped out. I also remember reading Temple Grandin being grateful to her mom/sitter for helping her enter their world and teaching her how to communicate. Also an ASD person's perspective.



mom_of_an_autie
While all points of view should be taken into consideration, I dont think a few of the more vocal ASD adults protesting against inteventions speaks for the thousands of adults out there with ASD.



To me, autism has always been what my son has, not who he is. He is
this bright and happy and affectionate little boy who has this difficulty in processing incoming information that he needs help with.
I don't think that people who are pro-acceptance are anti-intervention.

mom_of_an_autie:
From what I have read they are not anti intevention. They are just anti intevention if they dont agree with a particular therapy.



And I doubt that the most interventionist of parents doesn't still love their child unconditionally. We've rejected several autism interventions, but it hasn't been in the name of acceptance or because some predermined amount of time had passed for my son to aquire a skill. I've not embarked on interventions that made no sense, that I couldn't provide, that interfered with others that I considered more important, or that I felt were potentially harmful. It's very hard to draw the line at how much intervention is OK and when do your efforts start to show non-acceptance? I think of it very much like a dance- we have to try to be fluid, revise goals, revise techniques, change expectations if necessary (I've done that and been OK with it), but never, ever quit.
Alex's mom




Couldnt have said it better myself......

mom_of_an_autie
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Postby mom_of_an_autie » Tue May 30, 2006 2:40 pm

give a mouse a cookie wrote:LMP-
Yeah, you're right. Some people have no interest in changing their point of view, and I am definitely one of them. And, you'll be delighted to know that I, for one, will no longer rise to the obvious baits.
I'm outta here, off to greener, more accepting pastures.
It's a shame, though, that something as simple as acceptance could be so complex for some people to grasp. Especially considering what real, live, communicative autistic individuals have to say about the matter.
It is also a shame that this particular board has become one that only truly welcomes those who do biomed interventions; even the most invasive and painful interventions are considered to be mainstream here.
I am indeed starting a new forum, though it will have to wait until after the in-laws visit. I've got a lot on my plate already.
For anyone interested, I will begin a new thread in a few weeks with a link to the new forum.
Later.




Mouse I am not interested in changing your point of and hate that you think that is what this is about. What this IS about is the fact that you and anyone else who promotes "acceptance" seem to believe parents who do not follow ONLY mainstream therapies are not "accepting" their children.

You see "acceptance" as a simple concept that we "just dont get" but as you can see on this thread "acceptance" means different things to different people. It is not your place on anyone elses promoting "acceptance" to decide what "acceptance" should mean to people whos situation you dont/wont ever know.

Once again if you saw my original question as bait it makes no difference to me. However this is beating a dead horse since you cant/wont answer any of the questions I threw out there. Maybe there are no answers to give. Maybe there is no legitimate answer you can give. I guess I can only speculate.


Good luck on your new "acceptance" forum although I doubt that forum will be without debate...

srinath
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Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 12:33 pm

Ask him.

Postby srinath » Tue May 30, 2006 2:54 pm

dgdavis64 wrote:
<snippage>

Chelating my kids is not a selfish thing I'm doing for myself to make my life easier (ha!) as Kevin implied, it's a sacrifice and hardship that I'm
making now to invest in a better future for my kids. I have to do what's necessary to make sure they're as independant as they can possibly be as adults. This doesn't involve sitting and banging your head on the
wall. Sorry.


Yea if mercury is removed and he becomes vocal whihc is about the first thing that is happening with my son ... and he has an excellent memory at this point ... I'll ask him if he was feeling better last year or is he better now ... if he wants to be like he was last year (as in 2005 ... ) and he has made that descision, I'd work on going to the third world countries that still have thimerosal and getting him some. If he says no ... we are good. Other than that - I am going to continue this course of action as long as it works and he hasn't got the ability to understand and answer that question.
Cool.
Srinath.

give a mouse a cookie
Posts: 143
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 12:40 pm

Postby give a mouse a cookie » Tue May 30, 2006 3:05 pm

mom_of_an_autie, oh honey. you wrote:

I doubt that forum will be without debate...


It will be, considering I can limit who joins. You wouldn't want to even visit, let alone debate. This forum should be renamed "Biomedweb."

As far as speculating:

Once again if you saw my original question as bait it makes no difference to me. However this is beating a dead horse since you cant/wont answer any of the questions I threw out there. Maybe there are no answers to give. Maybe there is no legitimate answer you can give. I guess I can only speculate.


Your original question was tainted with the word "hypocritical" pointing our direction. Hmmmm. And you wonder why I didn't bother to answer? Why should I? You are rude and insulting, and inaccurate, to boot.
Trust me sweetheart, I'd be your worst nightmare in a true debate.

Answers to acceptance questions are in the words of autistic individuals. Apparently you are too afraid to see what they have to say, otherwise YOU would not continue to beat this dead horse. Maybe you need to brush up on your reading comprehension skills. You obviously have trouble understanding my words.
Nice baiting BTW, to get me to come back for this post. In the sage words of srinath--if there is no rebuttal, it must be true.....
And I'm done--go read something useful, for a change.

mom2mom
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Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 1:26 pm

Postby mom2mom » Tue May 30, 2006 3:24 pm

"he said, she said" ho hum

BTDT
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Postby BTDT » Tue May 30, 2006 3:34 pm

I'll have a go at this.

I think the acceptance vs. treatment issue is this: treatment aimed at improving a person's quality of life is okay, treatment aimed at changing a person's being, or making a person "indistinguishable from his peers" is not okay. Acceptance, to me, is about loving your child just the way he is, and not being sad that he has autism, but being happy that he is who he is. I also think there is another component to parental acceptance, which is changing from an "all is lost" and "hopeless" attitude, to an attitude of competence and hope even though your child remains disabled. Maintaining an attitude of despair, and constantly reminding yourself how difficult your life is, is detrimental to the parent, child, and other family members. Instead of looking for pity, we should be looking for understanding as well as giving it. I do think reaching acceptance is a process, and the length of that process varies, and I'm beginning to wonder if some folks never get there.

Also, among some individuals, and I've seen this in the biomed crowd, the ABA crowd, and among others, is a recovery at all costs attitude. "I will do anything to save/help my child." This attitude tends to coincide with a mindset that "I'm not a good parent, unless I pursue every possible intervention that might help my child." I think in the long run this can be detrimental to the child, family, and parents.

I think also there is a lot that still needs to be done in accepting individuals with disablities among the general public. It is the old dilemma: should we change the environment to fit the individual, or change the individual to fit the environment? I think we are all aware that individuals who don't "fit in" are subject to abuse. And at times helping the individual to fit in is the answer. However, accomodations and tolerance of differences are necessary. This has been a goal of disablity advocacy groups for many years, and we should of course continue to work in this direction. Nobody should have to feel ashamed because they are disabled, whether they are physically disabled and in a wheelchair, or neurologically disabled with behavioral differences.

For me personally, my objection is not to biomed per se, but to any intervention that is based on poor science, or no science, and also seems to take advantage of parents. Obviously, from the many debate posts on this board, this is an area which causes dispute among parents.

I do believe in intervention. I do believe in treating co-existing conditions. I do believe in quality research. I definitely believe in helping all individuals who are disabled to become as independent as possible. This should be done in a humane and respectful manner. And finally, if an individual remains dependent on others for care, this individual should continue to receive respect and be free from abuse.

mom_of_an_autie
Posts: 734
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 6:18 pm

Postby mom_of_an_autie » Tue May 30, 2006 4:12 pm

give a mouse a cookie wrote:mom_of_an_autie, oh honey. you wrote:

I doubt that forum will be without debate...


It will be, considering I can limit who joins. You wouldn't want to even visit, let alone debate. This forum should be renamed "Biomedweb."

As far as speculating:

Once again if you saw my original question as bait it makes no difference to me. However this is beating a dead horse since you cant/wont answer any of the questions I threw out there. Maybe there are no answers to give. Maybe there is no legitimate answer you can give. I guess I can only speculate.


Your original question was tainted with the word "hypocritical" pointing our direction. Hmmmm. And you wonder why I didn't bother to answer? Why should I? You are rude and insulting, and inaccurate, to boot.
Trust me sweetheart, I'd be your worst nightmare in a true debate.

Answers to acceptance questions are in the words of autistic individuals. Apparently you are too afraid to see what they have to say, otherwise YOU would not continue to beat this dead horse. Maybe you need to brush up on your reading comprehension skills. You obviously have trouble understanding my words.
Nice baiting BTW, to get me to come back for this post. In the sage words of srinath--if there is no rebuttal, it must be true.....
And I'm done--go read something useful, for a change.





Oh that poor horse....LOL


So let me get this straight YOUR forum will be WITHOUT debate because you will censor what is said there? YOU will get to decide who gets to join. Sounds to me like a case of "I am taking my toys and going home." Whats wrong? When it gets too hot time to leave the sandbox?


I would think that repeatedly making statements about "the biomed" crowd just not getting it and How you are spreading "acceptance" to people who dont know any better. Or this one "I am trying to offer help/advice and tell people what has worked for us" is a bit hypocritical since those werent your intentions at all. But now that you finally "get" you WILL NOT change the opinions of people who love their kids and who are treating them medically for THEIR individual issues it is time to pack up to leave to "more accepting pastures"

It is laughable that someone such as you would call me rude and insulting for posing questions you cant answer. Oh if I only had the time to find ALL the instances YOU have been HORRIBLY rude and insulting to people on this board for not following what you believe to be true. I would invite ANYONE to search MY posts for how rude and insulting I am. Can you say the same?

As far as being inaccurate, on what exactly? What YOU consider to be truth? Do you have double blind studies to back up what you say?(oh with NT peers of course)


So what would you like to debate (since you would be my worst nightmare) I mean after all I dont want to choose the topic that may be "baiting" you....


Awww no need to brush up on my comprehension skills YOU have made YOUR words more than clear.... :shock:




Would it surprise you to know that I am 3/4 of the way through the book
Autism and the God Connection by William Stillman? (I am currently reading 4 books and comprehending all of them nicely thanks!) He was also the author of Demystifying thr Autistic Experience: A Humanistic Introduction for Parents, Caregivers, and Educators. Which with all YOUR vast knowledge I am sure you know is praised by self-advocates in the Autism community. WOW he is even a person on the spectrum. He has Asperger's Syndrome.(gasp :shock:


Oh and by the way if you were trying to make me feel inferior somehow by your warm and fuzzy "acceptance" words such as "honey" and "sweetheart", which people usually sink to when they have nothing more intelligent to say it didnt work. :wink:


Good Luck on your forum. Here's a name you may want to use:
"Acceptance Utopia"

mom_of_an_autie
Posts: 734
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Postby mom_of_an_autie » Tue May 30, 2006 4:22 pm

BTDT wrote:
I think also there is a lot that still needs to be done in accepting individuals with disablities among the general public. It is the old dilemma: should we change the environment to fit the individual, or change the individual to fit the environment? I think we are all aware that individuals who don't "fit in" are subject to abuse. And at times helping the individual to fit in is the answer. However, accomodations and tolerance of differences are necessary. This has been a goal of disablity advocacy groups for many years, and we should of course continue to work in this direction. Nobody should have to feel ashamed because they are disabled, whether they are physically disabled and in a wheelchair, or neurologically disabled with behavioral differences.




I couldn't agree more.....

give a mouse a cookie
Posts: 143
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 12:40 pm

Postby give a mouse a cookie » Tue May 30, 2006 4:27 pm

When it gets too hot time to leave the sandbox?


Nope. Just discovered the sandbox is full of cat sh*t, that's all.

mom_of_an_autie
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Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 6:18 pm

Postby mom_of_an_autie » Tue May 30, 2006 4:32 pm

Mouse Thank You for the "mature" debate..... :wink:

Mary
Posts: 472
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 8:28 am

Postby Mary » Tue May 30, 2006 5:25 pm

BTDT wrote:I'll have a go at this.

I think the acceptance vs. treatment issue is this: treatment aimed at improving a person's quality of life is okay, treatment aimed at changing a person's being, or making a person "indistinguishable from his peers" is not okay. Acceptance, to me, is about loving your child just the way he is, and not being sad that he has autism, but being happy that he is who he is. I also think there is another component to parental acceptance, which is changing from an "all is lost" and "hopeless" attitude, to an attitude of competence and hope even though your child remains disabled. Maintaining an attitude of despair, and constantly reminding yourself how difficult your life is, is detrimental to the parent, child, and other family members. Instead of looking for pity, we should be looking for understanding as well as giving it. I do think reaching acceptance is a process, and the length of that process varies, and I'm beginning to wonder if some folks never get there.

Also, among some individuals, and I've seen this in the biomed crowd, the ABA crowd, and among others, is a recovery at all costs attitude. "I will do anything to save/help my child." This attitude tends to coincide with a mindset that "I'm not a good parent, unless I pursue every possible intervention that might help my child." I think in the long run this can be detrimental to the child, family, and parents.

I think also there is a lot that still needs to be done in accepting individuals with disablities among the general public. It is the old dilemma: should we change the environment to fit the individual, or change the individual to fit the environment? I think we are all aware that individuals who don't "fit in" are subject to abuse. And at times helping the individual to fit in is the answer. However, accomodations and tolerance of differences are necessary. This has been a goal of disablity advocacy groups for many years, and we should of course continue to work in this direction. Nobody should have to feel ashamed because they are disabled, whether they are physically disabled and in a wheelchair, or neurologically disabled with behavioral differences.

For me personally, my objection is not to biomed per se, but to any intervention that is based on poor science, or no science, and also seems to take advantage of parents. Obviously, from the many debate posts on this board, this is an area which causes dispute among parents.

I do believe in intervention. I do believe in treating co-existing conditions. I do believe in quality research. I definitely believe in helping all individuals who are disabled to become as independent as possible. This should be done in a humane and respectful manner. And finally, if an individual remains dependent on others for care, this individual should continue to receive respect and be free from abuse.


Lots of good stuff in BTDT's post. I second the desire for more and better research and science, and appreciate the thoughtful tone of her comments.

One caveat: With one of my children, the treatments that did improve his quality of life also left him "indistinguishable from his peers." Did that "change his being?" No, he is still himself, and still reveals his interesting personality to us every day, in new ways. He doesn't remember having autism, but we haven't hid that fact from him. In his case, the ABA and some biomed helped him reclaim the person he was for the first 18 to 24 months of his life -- carefree, happy, involved in the world -- before "autism" caused him to change suddenly and lose interest in almost everything.

As some of you may know, I also have another child who is not indistinguishable from his peers. In no way is this a tragedy. His autism is a part of him, but it has never, ever defined him, any more than the fact that he likes vegetables or soccer. Even if his autism disappeared tomorrow, which it won't, he would still be an amazing, interesting, wonderful guy, who, we hope, would be a lot less frustrated than he is now.


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