Study finds MMR is linked with Autism

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dgdavis64
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Study finds MMR is linked with Autism

Postby dgdavis64 » Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:32 am

Study Finds MMR Is Linked With Autism

By Lucy Johnston for the Sunday Express http://www.express.co.uk

Scientists have confirmed the controversial link between MMR and
autism.
The findings corroborate research by Dr Andrew Wakefield, discredited
by the Department of Health for suggesting the combined measles, mumps and
rubella jab may have contributed to rises in the disorder.

The new study, led by Dr Arthur Krigsman, a child gastroenterologist
from New York University School of Medicine, has led to calls for an
immediate overhaul of Britain's child vaccination programme.
The research, to be presented at the International Conference for
Autism Research in Montreal next week, is still going on but, unusually
early findings have been released because of the significance.
The study, which covers 275 children and is being carried out at
different medical centres in America, found serious intestinal inflammation
in autistic children identical to that described by Dr Wakefield and his
colleagues eight years ago.
Gut biopsy tissue from 82 of these children reveals that 85 per cent
have evidence of the measles virus in their inflamed intestines. Fourteen
have so far been confirmed by more stringent DNA tests.
The news will be a huge embarrassment for the Department of Health
which rubbished Dr Wakefield's research on the grounds it was uncorroborated
"bad science". Steve Walker, assistant professor at Wake Forest University
Medical Centre, North Carolina, who analysed the gut samples, said the work
mirrored Dr Wakefield's study.
"We're very excited by our findings," he said. "Wakefield's study was
criticised because it lacked replication. Our goal is to see if the finding
was real. Preliminary results show that it was."
Just as Dr Wakefield discovered in his work on the children with a
previously unidentified bowel condition, Dr Krigsman's patients had all
inexplicably deteriorated, losing language and other skills at around 12 to
18 months of age.
All of the children under both doctors were diagnosed with autism and
had come to them seeking help for symptoms of serious digestive problems for
which no explanation could be found.
Dr Wakefield, who was forced to resign his job as a gastroenterologist
at the Royal Free Hospital in north London after he publicised his theory,
welcomed the research. He said: "The Department of Health was able to
discredit our research by saying no one else had found similar results to
ours but no one else had looked.
"In the light of these results - which are strikingly similar to ours
- the Government and its regulators are obliged to act. At this stage it
would be prudent and in the best interests of vaccine uptake to make single
vaccines available."
Dr Richard Halvorsen, a GP from the Holborn Medical Centre in central
London, who is writing a book on the child vaccination programme, said:
"This is incredibly powerful evidence confirming the link between autism,
MMR and bowel disease.
"The Government should withdraw MMR until its safety can be proven,
particularly as we have safer and effective alternatives."
Jackie Fletcher, founder of Jabs, a support group for parents who
believe their children have been damaged by vaccines, said: "This study
confirms that the measles virus is present in the guts of these children
when it shouldn't be.
"This also shows that the studies, which the Government use as proof
of the safety of MMR vaccine, are inadequate. The MMR should be suspended
and single jabs reinstated immediately. We cannot take risks with our
children."
A spokeswoman for the Department of Health said it could not comment
on the research until it had been presented but she defended the triple jab.
"There is no link between autism and the MMR vaccine," she said. "MMR
remains the best form of protection against measles, mumps and rubella."

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BTDT
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Postby BTDT » Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:43 am

http://www.journalnow.com/servlet/Satel ... 9188190952

A 2002 study published in England suggested that the measles vaccine - which uses strains of the measles virus - could cause autism in children. Children are typically inoculated against measles, mumps and rubella between 12 months and 18 months old.

The vaccines are given shortly before children with regressive autism begin to show signs of the disability, leading to fears about a possible link between the vaccine and the condition.

According to Stephen Walker, an assistant professor of physiology and pharmacology at the medical center, such a link is tough to prove.

Walker, who studied children with regressive autism and bowel disease, presented research this week showing that a high percentage of autistic children with chronic bowel disease show evidence of the measles virus in their intestines. He drew no conclusions about autism and the virus.

The findings were presented at the International Meeting for Autism Research in Montreal.

Even if physicians can prove a link between the virus and bowel disease, "the conclusion will be simply that there is measles virus in the gut of a large number of children who have regressive autism and bowel disease," Walker said. "We haven't done anything to demonstrate that the measles virus is causing autism."

srinath
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MMR, mercury

Postby srinath » Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:26 am

Try this ... mercury in fish is dangerous, mercury in your doctors office isn't. Measles if you got it all by yourself, is dangerous, you get it from a doctor its safe ... That sounds like a good racket to me ... like Elaine in Seinfeld said "Its kosher if the pig has been blessed by a rabbi" ...
Yea sounds about right ...
Cool.
Srinath.

dgdavis64
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Postby dgdavis64 » Thu Jun 08, 2006 11:38 am

BTDT wrote:

"He drew no conclusions about autism and the virus."

"

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give a mouse a cookie
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Postby give a mouse a cookie » Thu Jun 08, 2006 11:41 am

There is no reason to get "excited" about Krigsman's "findings" for a few reasons.

1) He is a cohort of Wakefield's. This article makes it appear that the two men have never met, or at least makes no connection between the two. Krigsman is a clinician at Wakefield's "Thoughtful House" http://www.thoughtfulhouse.org/down in Texas. Krigsman has every reason to support Wakefield's "findings."

2) The study has yet to be peer-reviewed.

3) The study has yet to published in any medical journals. Being reported in a daily newspaper does not constitute publication. Pub-Med is a good source for published articles. Just for fun--go do a search on Krigsman. Try Wakefield while you're at it.

4) No controls. The article you posted makes no mention of non-autistic controls. Only autistic children were studied. Perhaps because not many parents are willing to subject their children to the process of retrieving gut biopsies.

In the future, please make an effort to post articles that have some credibility. This one is rubbish.

dgdavis64
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Postby dgdavis64 » Thu Jun 08, 2006 11:55 am

"The research, to be presented at the International Conference for
Autism Research in Montreal next week, is still going on but, unusually
early findings have been released because of the significance."

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livsparents
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Postby livsparents » Thu Jun 08, 2006 11:58 am

give a mouse a cookie wrote:In the future, please make an effort to post articles that have some credibility. This one is rubbish.


This one MIGHT be rubbish, let's wait for it to be peer reviewed.


We can get back to the discussion that there is a definite link between the gut issues and autism. Which one causes the other, I'll reserve judgement till more data comes out. But to deny the physiological symptom as one of the potential autistic symptoms is similar to saying "Maybe the stim is caused by something else" "Maybe the Apraxia is unrelated"; "Maybe your child was not was not autistic to begin with". It is giving governments, insurance companies and doctors carte blanc(he?) to write whatever they want about the disorder. My daughter does not have violent outbursts or self injurous behavior. Does that make those who do any less deserving of service?
Do you deny that there are physiological symptoms of autism?
I know I diverge from what Krigsman and Wakefield are putting forth, but at least they are investigating and getting others to look hard at the brain/gut connection...

Bill

srinath
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Brain gut connection

Postby srinath » Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:08 pm

This is somehting that struck me reading Livsparents post ...
If you have an upset stomach ... you'll have nightmares while sleeping ... maybe the gut injured kids are having nightmares. Sleep disruptions if it happens often enough even if you're not waking up during those disruptions will show a lot of mental retardation and loss of ability.
repeat that 1000's of days over and its begining to look like our kids lives ...
Cool.
Srinath.

livsparents
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Postby livsparents » Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:18 pm

That 'pained' look for us many times is Liv feeling pain because of diarhea or constipation. This causes her to wake, not be able to concentrate, to cry. Her lack of speech further exacerbates her mood. Fix her gut and, at the VERY least, she is happier and better able to concentrate and sleep. Back to your point, THAT helps her in the long run.

THIS is one of my main points about the link. Don't just give me miralax and tell me I give her too much juice...that's LAZY practice! I feel that a NT kid would be getting all kinds or scopes, while the ASD kid gets a doctor scratching her head saying "it's part of the disorder", then the Ped Neuro saying "no that's not part of the disorder". Get me a ROADMAP or at least listen to MY directions, I know what's going on seemingly more than THEM!
Bill

Why does someone's contraversial theory on WHY it happens immediatly excuse what is happenning?
Last edited by livsparents on Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dgdavis64
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Postby dgdavis64 » Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:21 pm

Bill wrote:

"at least they are investigating and getting others to look hard at the brain/gut connection... "

Can you see me dancing over here in my new bikini? You go, Bill :) :)

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livsparents
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Postby livsparents » Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:23 pm

YEE HAW! You go, cowgirl :wink:

dgdavis64
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Postby dgdavis64 » Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:38 pm

Sorry about that Bill, but the endorphins are still pumping from my Turbo Jam workout. Couldn't resist! :wink:

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littlebopeep
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Postby littlebopeep » Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:40 pm

I am just curious - would an autistic kid's gut problems be treated any differently than an NT kid's same gut problems? What is the rate of such problems in NT kids? Why would a doctor (DAN! or otherwise) treat physical problems any differently in either kid?

Again, just curious. Not meaning to provoke.
Fred, 7, NT
Barney, 5, autism

livsparents
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Postby livsparents » Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:46 pm

I hate to post a stat that I don't have backup for, but I hear 1 in 6 have some kind of learning disability. My son has some hyperactivity issues AND he has some constipation issues....HMMMM, maybe we SHOULD look into this (note:personalexperienceisnosubstituteforclinicalstudiespleaseconsultyour physicialtoseeif MILALAX is right for you! :wink: )

Sorry didn't answer the question, maybe they SHOULD be looking at gut issues differently, I just think that gut issues are being OVERLOOKED in autistic kids, because it is lumped in with the rest of the disorder or not picked up because the kid cannot convey that they are hurting...

Bill

LittleManzParents
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Postby LittleManzParents » Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:58 pm

littlebopeep wrote:I am just curious - would an autistic kid's gut problems be treated any differently than an NT kid's same gut problems? What is the rate of such problems in NT kids? Why would a doctor (DAN! or otherwise) treat physical problems any differently in either kid?

Again, just curious. Not meaning to provoke.


These are good question, and I wonder too.

But I will say, in reference to Bill mentioning "Lazy practice", I think that happens often with NT kids (and adults) as well. If the problem isn't so severe that it's very obviously suspicious, docs are likely to minimize it and do what is easiest first. Tough balancing act to know which are "no big deal" and which require more questioning and further investigation... which is why it is so important for us to educate our doctors about our concerns and be PERSISTENT if we're not satisfied w/ the results from cutting down on juice. :wink: Ultimately, they'll usually humor us with more tests just to shut us up (which is how I got referred to EI, by the way).

kathleenjj
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Postby kathleenjj » Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:28 pm

give a mouse a cookie wrote:
In the future, please make an effort to post articles that have some credibility. This one is rubbish.


Lets remember your point, GMAC. You can not prov eit is rubbish. I appreciate you are pointing out that it has not been published yet but that does not equal rubbish. Publishing doesn't necessarily make it good, either. Or peer approval. THere was time when the man who discovered lobotomies was given the Nobel Prize and many, many of his peers thought it was a great idea, too.

Mistakes happen. That is what makes it so hard to figure out who did make them, is making them, etc.

But again my point? it is irresponsible to call this rubbish.
Kathleen
Proud Mom

Mary
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Postby Mary » Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:16 pm

littlebopeep wrote:I am just curious - would an autistic kid's gut problems be treated any differently than an NT kid's same gut problems? What is the rate of such problems in NT kids? Why would a doctor (DAN! or otherwise) treat physical problems any differently in either kid?

Again, just curious. Not meaning to provoke.


It's a good question and I don't find it provocative (in the negative sense). The answer is that gut problems should be treated the same. The problem arises when some of our kids' GI problems are blamed on autism-related behavior. The doctor may say he's a picky eater or he's not eating because he has autism (rather than that eating makes him feel sick), he has chronic diarrhea because he's ingesting nonfood items (rather than that he's unable to tolerate some foods), he's screaming in pain after meals because it's an autistic tantrum (rather than suffering from GI upset). Our little guys often can't tell us that their stomachs hurt!

I have an acquaintance whose son with autism was barely able to eat and losing weight, and his pediatrician didn't refer him to a GI specialist. The mom eventually insisted the child get a colonoscopy, and he had a form of colitis/Crohn's Disease-type gastrointestinal problem.

I know more NT kids than autistic kids, but all of the kids I know with gut problems have autism, with the exception of one NT child with Celiac Disease. How about you? Do any of you know NT kids with gut problems?

mom_of_an_autie
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Postby mom_of_an_autie » Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:54 pm

Mary wrote: Do any of you know NT kids with gut problems?



You know Mary I only know of 1 child with celiacs disease who is NT but his sister has autism. I dont know any other NT kids with gut problems

Winnie
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Postby Winnie » Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:02 pm

I know more NT kids than autistic kids, but all of the kids I know with gut problems have autism, with the exception of one NT child with Celiac Disease. How about you? Do any of you know NT kids with gut problems?


I wonder who keeps Pediatric Gastroenterologists in business? I wonder what percentage of children with autism comprise their practices.

I know NT and ASD children with GI problems as well, but I doubt that my circle is representative of the actual distribution of pediatric GI problems.
Winnie
"Make it a powerful memory, the happiest you can remember."

livsparents
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Postby livsparents » Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:13 pm

Maybe it's time for these Pediatric GI's to go to Boot Camp for the issues facing the autism community. Instead of deflecting the issue, why doesn't someone other than us 'crazy biomed people' belly up to the bar and admit there is a higher incidence of GI issues in autism than the general population? Why isn't a 'legitimate' study done to detrmine why there is a higher incidence (with the precious NT control group, of course)?

And no Winnie, I am not going to answer my own question with a "because Big Pharma and the gvt are hiding something". The only thing they are hiding is their lack of funding or greed or apathy toward an issue that will cost a lot more than it could make...
Bill


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