Study finds MMR is linked with Autism

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LittleManzParents
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Postby LittleManzParents » Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:45 pm

Mary wrote:
littlebopeep wrote:I am just curious - would an autistic kid's gut problems be treated any differently than an NT kid's same gut problems? What is the rate of such problems in NT kids? Why would a doctor (DAN! or otherwise) treat physical problems any differently in either kid?

Again, just curious. Not meaning to provoke.


It's a good question and I don't find it provocative (in the negative sense). The answer is that gut problems should be treated the same. The problem arises when some of our kids' GI problems are blamed on autism-related behavior. The doctor may say he's a picky eater or he's not eating because he has autism (rather than that eating makes him feel sick), he has chronic diarrhea because he's ingesting nonfood items (rather than that he's unable to tolerate some foods), he's screaming in pain after meals because it's an autistic tantrum (rather than suffering from GI upset). Our little guys often can't tell us that their stomachs hurt!

I have an acquaintance whose son with autism was barely able to eat and losing weight, and his pediatrician didn't refer him to a GI specialist. The mom eventually insisted the child get a colonoscopy, and he had a form of colitis/Crohn's Disease-type gastrointestinal problem.

I know more NT kids than autistic kids, but all of the kids I know with gut problems have autism, with the exception of one NT child with Celiac Disease. How about you? Do any of you know NT kids with gut problems?


While reading this post and re-reading BoPeep's original post, it dawned on me that I might have misinterpreted the original questions - I think? :? Peep?

littlebopeep
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Postby littlebopeep » Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:57 pm

I didn't really get what you were saying, ManzP, but that's OK. Mary's posts made sense to me. I'd be interested in your reply, too.
Fred, 7, NT
Barney, 5, autism

LittleManzParents
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Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2006 4:27 am

Postby LittleManzParents » Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:08 pm

littlebopeep wrote:I didn't really get what you were saying, ManzP, but that's OK. Mary's posts made sense to me. I'd be interested in your reply, too.


lol, yeah, I'm not really sure what I'm saying either. I guess when I glanced at it originally, I was mostly focused on the first sentence, and thought you were wondering if gut issues in ASD kids would be prescribed different treatments than the same gut issues NT kids - or if there is any medical evidence/reason that they should be. This is of particular interest because it appears that although both NT and ASD kids can have gut issues, the issues that ASD kids have are often unique (due in part to lack of evidence to the contrary) and perhaps have different implications.

I suppose the difference in perception was that I thought you were asking about kids that had already been identified as having gut issues.

LittleManzParents
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Postby LittleManzParents » Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:53 pm

Bill - I believe you added the following after your original post?

Why does someone's contraversial theory on WHY it happens immediately excuse what is happenning?


This is an OUTSTANDING point. Regardless of whether or not we agree about the cause (which is silly to debate because none of us knows yet), we can certainly agree it is happening and deserves much more attention.

littlebopeep
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Postby littlebopeep » Fri Jun 09, 2006 6:18 am

LittleManzParents wrote:if gut issues in ASD kids would be prescribed different treatments than the same gut issues NT kids - or if there is any medical evidence/reason that they should be. This is of particular interest because it appears that although both NT and ASD kids can have gut issues, the issues that ASD kids have are often unique (due in part to lack of evidence to the contrary) and perhaps have different implications.


Yes, this is what I'm curious about. Why would an ASD kid's GI problems be treated any differently than an NT's? Assuming you have left the practise of a dismissive doctor and have found a doc who is more educated in pediatric GI problems?

I am also curious why Bill often says that it's important for researchers to establish a connection between autism and GI problems.
Fred, 7, NT

Barney, 5, autism

LittleManzParents
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Postby LittleManzParents » Fri Jun 09, 2006 6:55 am

Yes, this is what I'm curious about. Why would an ASD kid's GI problems be treated any differently than an NT's? Assuming you have left the practise of a dismissive doctor and have found a doc who is more educated in pediatric GI problems?

I am also curious why Bill often says that it's important for researchers to establish a connection between autism and GI problems.


I'd agree that the evidence we have so far does suggest that there is a higher percentage of ASD kids with intestinal issues than the NT kid population. Also, until more research is done to prove otherwise, it appears that the type of gut problems ASD kids have are often unique. Uniqueness coupled with above average incidents does tend to raise an eyebrow or two - particularly the eyebrows of the parents with these children.

Bill can answer further regarding the gut-brain connection.

lookingforanswers
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Postby lookingforanswers » Fri Jun 09, 2006 8:39 am

I wonder who keeps Pediatric Gastroenterologists in business? I wonder what percentage of children with autism comprise their practices.


In my neck of the woods, there are no pediatric gastroenterologists nearby. The one or two families who have seen one have gone out of state. There are adult GI doctors who will see children, but they don't specialize in kids' problems. There was a Univ. of California study a few years ago that said that GI problems were more common among young kids with autism than adults with autism. I will have to hunt for the study if anyone is interested in it. It looks at autism only.

srinath
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Typical kids

Postby srinath » Fri Jun 09, 2006 8:39 am

littlebopeep wrote:
LittleManzParents wrote:if gut issues in ASD kids would be prescribed different treatments than the same gut issues NT kids - or if there is any medical evidence/reason that they should be. This is of particular interest because it appears that although both NT and ASD kids can have gut issues, the issues that ASD kids have are often unique (due in part to lack of evidence to the contrary) and perhaps have different implications.


Yes, this is what I'm curious about. Why would an ASD kid's GI problems be treated any differently than an NT's? Assuming you have left the practise of a dismissive doctor and have found a doc who is more educated in pediatric GI problems?

I am also curious why Bill often says that it's important for researchers to establish a connection between autism and GI problems.


An NT kid will say what happens after eating food that he is allergic to, and they also will throw up or have stomach pains or other visible symptoms.
ASD kids stim, zone out, scream non specifically and act up and usually it goes un detected. Which is why they say to try a GFCF or scd before concluding if that is what the kids are allergic to.
Cool.
Srinath.

dgdavis64
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Re: Typical kids

Postby dgdavis64 » Fri Jun 09, 2006 9:17 am

srinath wrote:An NT kid will say what happens after eating food that he is allergic to, and they also will throw up or have stomach pains or other visible symptoms.
ASD kids stim, zone out, scream non specifically and act up and usually it goes un detected. Which is why they say to try a GFCF or scd before concluding if that is what the kids are allergic to.
Cool.
Srinath.


This is one of the reasons I have much more respect for veterinarians. I wish Drs would approach humans (kids) the same way. They're much more in depth with their treatment since animals can't talk.

But in our case, Luke didn't have many GI problems until we started TD DMPS. As an infant he did have a lot of discomfort/gas but his BM's were not out of the ordinary. And when I started the biomed with him, I questioned the "leaky gut" thing because his stomach/gas problems seemed to have improved by the time he was 2.5. Then we started with the chelation and all this yeast/bacteria got stirred up and caused so many problems.......

Beware of the pharma trollbot shills posting from anonymous proxy servers

srinath
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Lucky so far

Postby srinath » Fri Jun 09, 2006 9:50 am

That vetenarian idea is cool ... we need to send doctors to vet school ... :lol:
In any case ... DMPS and DMSA yes are horrible on you and yeast is just 1 side effect. I dont know how santosh is eating it and heck he eats it willingly ... will even ask for it and eat it.
Cool.
Srinath.

livsparents
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Re: Typical kids

Postby livsparents » Fri Jun 09, 2006 11:32 am

srinath wrote:
littlebopeep wrote:
LittleManzParents wrote:if gut issues in ASD kids would be prescribed different treatments than the same gut issues NT kids - or if there is any medical evidence/reason that they should be. This is of particular interest because it appears that although both NT and ASD kids can have gut issues, the issues that ASD kids have are often unique (due in part to lack of evidence to the contrary) and perhaps have different implications.


Yes, this is what I'm curious about. Why would an ASD kid's GI problems be treated any differently than an NT's? Assuming you have left the practise of a dismissive doctor and have found a doc who is more educated in pediatric GI problems?

I am also curious why Bill often says that it's important for researchers to establish a connection between autism and GI problems.



An NT kid will say what happens after eating food that he is allergic to, and they also will throw up or have stomach pains or other visible symptoms.
ASD kids stim, zone out, scream non specifically and act up and usually it goes un detected. Which is why they say to try a GFCF or scd before concluding if that is what the kids are allergic to.
Cool.
Srinath.


This may take a while:
Sorry took a few to answer this. I had to pick Liv up at school. She was crying uncontrollably. Luckily her school is in tune with her issue and her subtle way of telling them what is wrong (not so subtle sometimes, she grabs their hands and put it on her belly this time!). Thank goodness they are so intuned...

Isn't it ironic, don'tja think (to coin a musical phrase)? She doesn't get to the point that she has to leave school more than once a month usually. Srinath, you hit it on the head about concentration, how if they are in distress, they cannot focus (can anyone?). How many kids potentially have physiological issues (pain) that cause them not to progress?

I still don't like the turn that the conversation's going, that it MIGHT be every type of kid that can have GI issues (true, but the higher prevelence in ASD kids is just a theory???), that biomed MIGHT be the cause of their GI issues (some medication, yes but generally no). It reminds me of the 1 in 164 argument; better diagnosis, broadened criterea. PEOPLE, THERE ARE 1 IN 164 KIDS AFFECTED HERE! Why I don't give a darn Scarlett, 1 in 164 remains. Same thing with the gut...

Goes back to the rants I had a few weeks ago about changing diagnostic criterea. I got mired in a debate about the criterea of the diagnosis, what I MEANT to argue is that ONCE a diagnosis is reached, how about giving doctors and parents a roadmap of the possible issues that may arise from the autism? Gut issues, food allergies (GFCF), eating non food items (whats that called again?) self injurous behaviors (feel free to add to the list). I had to learn about all this stuff on the 'virtual street'. I have to educate my doctors about the issues that autistic kids face. I have a modern diagnostic criterea and a "leech-based" treatment criterea.

This is one reason I find the 'acceptance' crowd, not wrong but possibly misguiding people. If we accept, will that send the wrong message to parents, whose kids, like mine, are in distress because something IS wrong? There are obvious limitations that are kids MAY have as they get older, I don't want their lack of communication or autistic behaviors masking their need for medical attention.

Once we get past that, let's find out first 'if' there is a higher prevelence of gut issues in the ASD community and what causes it if that's true...

BILL

2boys2
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Postby 2boys2 » Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:01 am

I know more NT kids than autistic kids, but all of the kids I know with gut problems have autism, with the exception of one NT child with Celiac Disease. How about you? Do any of you know NT kids with gut problems?[/quote]

my neice and nephew both have milk intolerances in different ways, one constipates and gets sores similiar to eczema but is not and the other has oppositional defiance disorder that escalates plus food linked addictions and associated behaviors when ingesting intolerated foods. come to think of it he had the worse trush as a baby that wouldnt go away even with treatments. they are nt in every sense but are noticeably different kids if having infractions. my other neice and nephew from my other sibling are showing signs of food intolerances too. they are still pretty young yet so far nt but very interesting genetic pool as we have all these problems occuring in conjunction with food. i know one girl i coach who can not tolerate red dye what so ever and will admit she likes it and the feeling she gets from but then not so much b/c she then gets sick as a dog so the saying goes. of all the kids i teach/have taught over the years, over 100 there has only been a few with problems and those problems not major.
Lisalynn
keeping hope and faith through it all.


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