I've come up with a biofilm protocol...what do you think?

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Pearl1981
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Re: I've come up with a biofilm protocol...what do you think?

Postby Pearl1981 » Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:08 pm

Can I just interrupt to ask (sorry)

I have xylitol and xylose blend , 2.5kg
Is the xylose part ok or useful?
Thank you!
Daughter 5y.o lost diagnosis - 100 rounds cutler. Aspergers/ autism @2yrs

JeniB
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Re: I've come up with a biofilm protocol...what do you think?

Postby JeniB » Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:36 pm

I'm not sure what xylose is. Does it say exactly? I don't know. I'd look into it first just to make sure maybe. I'd add the serripetidase in too if you can. I think it really helps relieve inflammation from cellular debris.
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AnxiousDad
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Re: I've come up with a biofilm protocol...what do you think?

Postby AnxiousDad » Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:44 pm

I feel absolutely terrible today. Flu like symptoms without the flu. A knot in my throat, bloated, tender abdomen and burning sensation in my stomach,feverish. I think this protocol works. If this is what die off feels like then i am certainly having it. I will be more glad when this die off passes and i feel better.

JeniB
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Re: I've come up with a biofilm protocol...what do you think?

Postby JeniB » Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:55 pm

That's interesting about parasite remedies and copper. I agree, that copper is a very necessary nutrient. However, it is rampantly used in industry just as aluminum. So, copper deficiency, a true one, probably doesn't exist in today's world. I've read a lot from Dr. Ritchie shoemaker with a degree from Duke University and he has done lots of research in molds and bacteria. He has found certain bacteria feed off of copper sulfate. Copper is still used on organic crops too and is regarded as gRAS. It treats swimming pools and many water supplies. So, if there's a chance that a bacteria is using copper and you release too much of it, this CAN become toxic, and quickly, it is unbound and unusable. it is caustic and the calcium is being released by the body to douse the copper toxicity in the system, this can cause liver damage too. Tyrosine and carnosine will help the body use it better, but it should be added very carefully. MT function needs to be working properly, with the right amino acids in place that help the body bind and use copper. Yeasts also love copper. It's the resistant organisms that seem to use it, because in the past it has been used successfully to actually kill yeasts and fungus. My guess is that they use copper to protect themselves. This is why there is a supplement to treat ulcers that combines zinc and carnosine. Bound together they actually go into the ulcer and heal it. Many with h. pylori use it to treat the sores. If you suck on a zinc losenge with a mouth ulcer, it will go away. I had a friend that swore by it. So, I think there's something going on with it and maybe you're right about the body sending copper to the rescue, but it's being met up with a body who has a inability to bind it and use it and store it properly. zinc too for that matter. Important amino acids build up and become toxic like glutamine because the body hasn't broken it down into a useful form. I think it'd be safe to add zinc during the cleaning out phase and once it's healed and working, then add copper. I think we've all gone wrong with using gross amounts of zinc without addressing the underlying issues and then you have zinc toxicity and still no real ability to use copper. The organisims are still there. causing problems. Since they're hardly every all addressed at once, they grow and go back and forth between, parasites, yeasts and bacteria. Kill one, then get another in it's place. Very hard to balance the way we are treating this stuff.
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Re: I've come up with a biofilm protocol...what do you think?

Postby JeniB » Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:02 pm

re-read your posts again AD. so, maybe what if copper is being sent to treat parasites and then it feeds some bacteria and yeast in the process? I think we all have too much stored copper. When it's released to treat the infection/die-off, this is when too much may become toxic. Until you get copper and zinc in the right proportion. then it can be very toxic. I don't avoid copper foods however. We eat lots of sunflower seed butter. I just don't like giving it as a supplement until his gut is healed.
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Re: I've come up with a biofilm protocol...what do you think?

Postby JeniB » Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:05 pm

AD, maybe use apple pectin or psyllium. I've heard rutin binds to copper some. Beans work great here. They seem easier on the stomach for my son. About an hour after you give the meds and after eating too. It may really help with the acidity. I would also give molybdeum. Both me and my son had really low manganese. Symptom of too much copper and they say this is also seen in lyme. which is the same thing really.

I would absolutely use lots of magnesium to douse the acidity you're having. that's what it sounds like.
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AnxiousDad
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Re: I've come up with a biofilm protocol...what do you think?

Postby AnxiousDad » Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:40 pm

JeniB wrote:re-read your posts again AD. so, maybe what if copper is being sent to treat parasites and then it feeds some bacteria and yeast in the process? I think we all have too much stored copper. When it's released to treat the infection/die-off, this is when too much may become toxic. Until you get copper and zinc in the right proportion. then it can be very toxic. I don't avoid copper foods however. We eat lots of sunflower seed butter. I just don't like giving it as a supplement until his gut is healed.

Thanks JeniB,
Just brainstroming here..So please here me out. I concurr, in order to take care of the parasites all copper is directed to the gut where it is trying to fight off a parasitic infection. It is therefore also feeding yeast and some bacteria in the process. Agreed.
Unless we get rid of the parasitic infection copper will continue to be directed to the gut where it will feed the bacteria and the yeast. So once you get rid of the parasite no more copper will be directed to the gut and then yeast and bacteria will come into control all by itself. So unless we get rid of the parasite, a healthy zinc-copper balance cannot be achieved.
All this is just my own hypothesis.

I am confident now that too much zinc caused most of the problems that my son has now in addition to the autism including the global apraxia or should i call ataxia in my son. This should be a warning for all parents that a cookie cutter approach is not suitable for all children. Supplementing zinc willy nilly is not the answer to solving the autism problem.

JeniB
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Re: I've come up with a biofilm protocol...what do you think?

Postby JeniB » Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:19 pm

microsporidia came up for my son...look this one up and see what it can do to the cells, not pretty. It was Asyra (energy testing) but all the stuff that came up was dead on for him, so I feel it is correct. and I don't doubt that parasites are a big issue if not THE issue. It's the one thing doctors are not addressing AT ALL with kids and adults alike. They've forgotten that these things exist and are very dangerous in the wrong people. makes sense.

are you using any other form of parasite treatment with this? if this is killing bacteria, I would, at the moment use something that can help the body deal with possible copper however. since zinc is not an option, what about manganese and moly? because I think it will be in excess. I've been using paragone off and on for some time now and it is helping. Thyme extract and rosemary too. Pumpkin seed oil is really good if given on a regular basis and 2 hours before having a bowel movement.

about the head tilt, I forgot to answer that one. This is a dead on Thiamine deficiency. Just look at photos of cattle with this, it's called "star gazing" my son had this and the leg muscle wasting too. no doctor in this country is even sort of looking at the eczema, crusts, cracked lips and other deficiencies at all. it's very sad that they have no clue what doctors before them knew as pellegra, berberi and scurvy. Shame on medicine for failing us.
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jennylynne
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Re: I've come up with a biofilm protocol...what do you think?

Postby jennylynne » Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:50 pm

star gazing and head tilting. I am googling and finding only BIRDS. Can't compare a human to a bird's actions. She does gaze out into nothing
ALL the time. We thought for sure she had absence seizures, but she tested out no abnormalities. She tilts her head up or sideways a LOT to look out into
space. Is that what you are talking about?

how far from food can you give the lactoferrin/xylitol combo? I gave her aout 1/4 a cap of lactoferrin, and 1/4 tsp of xylitol.... and then an hour later, a shake made from strawberries, keifer, and liquid stevia...

JeniB
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Re: I've come up with a biofilm protocol...what do you think?

Postby JeniB » Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:00 pm

Actually it's not just in birds, many other animals and ruminants get this from thiamine deficiency. Cows will turn their heads up and it is more a muscle thing and not just looking up. My son did this and he did it so bad that one side of his head began to flatten where his head turned up and sideways all the time in the crib-it was very pronounced and we had to go see a doctor who fitted for helmets because his left side of his face and skull was flat. Instead we did physical therapy to help loosen up the tight neck muscles.

http://www.ansci.cornell.edu/plants/tox ... inase.html
http://drugster.info/img/term/thiamine- ... 4954_0.jpg
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jennylynne
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Re: I've come up with a biofilm protocol...what do you think?

Postby jennylynne » Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:04 am

I googled more ...and found stuff on mammals. I found some Thiamine deficiency on Dogs and Cats....and I don't know if she
head tilts like that. She has some vestibular issues. She always stands on her head and LOVES to be upside down and swinging.

I'll look more at how she tilts her head. She is out to lunch a lot...but I never really paid attention to HOW she tilted her head.

I am up to 20 mg Benfo.

Does this lactoferrin thing exacerbate yeast? What should I be doing for that other than our one tab of GSE, one cap of Caprylic acid, keifer, and probios?( we only do that much BC of her school schedule).

Also, how much Psyllium fiber do you give to mop up things? I am getting some tomorrow...

Last ??. How do you mix Xylitol in water? Can I use warm water? Or should I just let the mixture sit for a while?

jennylynne
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Re: I've come up with a biofilm protocol...what do you think?

Postby jennylynne » Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:02 am

Antiviral activities of lactoferrin.

[Notes: Benefits of lactoferrin, specific viruses it acts on, and modes of action.]

van der Strate BW, Beljaars L, Molema G, Harmsen MC, Meijer DK.
Antiviral Research 2001 Dec;52(3):225-39. PMID: 11675140

Department of Pharmacokinetics and Drug Delivery, Groningen University Institute for Drug Exploration (GUIDE), A. Deusinglaan 1, 9713 AV Groningen, The Netherlands.

Lactoferrin (LF) is an iron binding glycoprotein that is present in several mucosal secretions. Many biological functions have been ascribed to LF. One of the functions of LF is the transport of metals, but LF is also an important component of the non-specific immune system, since LF has antimicrobial properties against bacteria, fungi and several viruses. This review gives an overview of the present knowledge about the antiviral activities and, when possible, the antiviral modes of action of this protein. Lactoferrin displays antiviral activity against both DNA- and RNA-viruses, including rotavirus, respiratory syncytial virus, herpes viruses and HIV. The antiviral effect of LF lies in the early phase of infection. Lactoferrin prevents entry of virus in the host cell, either by blocking cellular receptors, or by direct binding to the virus particles.



Is this ok for us that aren't far in chelation to be taking? She has viral templates still of RSV....and Herpes(roseola). It says it only helps in early phases....not in dormant infections.

How does Colostrum differ from using Lactoferrin? Is ts because the Lactoferrin is more concentrated in the capsule? I have some colostrum here, never gave it to her bc she was casein free and it wasn't the kirkman kind.

jennylynne
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Re: I've come up with a biofilm protocol...what do you think?

Postby jennylynne » Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:33 am

Jen THANKS!!! :)

So this chelation round we are off Nystatin as per your advice. I gave her VSL and Culturelle this morning before BF. I gave her GSE tab (1...she can't tolerate 2 well..so 125mg) between BF and lunch. Gave her lactoferrin and xylitol after lunch. Forgot our caprylic acid an hour later( was going to use caprylic acid and candex since we don't do Virastop yet). Did VSL, Culturelle, and Candex before bed.

No yeasty behaviors today despite some yeasty smelling stool this morning. Tonight smelled rank and sweet ( smells like this when she is in die off) so I think the lactoferrin is helping her from flaring up! I even gave her a few cookies ( because she SPONTANEOUSLY said " all done " at dinner when she was finished after eating almost everything....).

JeniB
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Re: I've come up with a biofilm protocol...what do you think?

Postby JeniB » Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:46 am

I would think it is ok to give LF at this point. It doesn't sound like it does that much on long standing viruses-like bringing them out which is the danger of doing antiviral too soon (its not really dangerous either, it's just that the immune system is still not ready to fight it with the metals still there, so you'd have to do lots more to keep it under control-mostly yeast). It almost sounds like it acts like Elderberry in how it prevents the virus from going into the cell in the early stages of infection. It's best mode of action, I feel, is robbing bacteria of iron so that the body can use it. I have a feeling this is a part of why our kids seem pale and can't fight infection since this is also in the healthy mucosal layer in the intestines (which our kids don't have). I think our kids really need any supplement that is going to rebuild the intestinal wall. many of us don't give them, but they need them. All other gut dysbiosis groups that are treating will use some form of nutrient to rebuild the mucosal wall.

You will get even more gains if you can manage to treat yeast/bacteria 3x a day. This is when, early on, that we finally started having consistent progress. When I was using one dose of diflucan, my son's yeast just would come back after meals. This is the time to give them, after they eat their main meals. i skip lunch during the week because of school, but I give in the morning, after our afternoon snack and after dinner. This really keeps yeast at bay long enough for the intestines to heal some. I follow up about an hour and a half later with probiotics. The xylitol thing, Im not going to lie, it's a pain to put in this extra step. I do it before meals, yeast after meals and probiotics in between.
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Re: I've come up with a biofilm protocol...what do you think?

Postby JeniB » Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:52 am

good to see that she's doing well too. I really think that if kids need thiamine, they will talk much more when they get enough of it. I think she matches my son too well not to keep giving the thiamine a bit longer to see if it helps with digestion. children will develop lactic acidosis if they are deficient in it. especially if giving lots of probiotics. This happened when infants were given a forumla that had forgotten to add thiamine to it. Most of the babies developed neurological problems and lactic acidosis.
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jennylynne
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Re: I've come up with a biofilm protocol...what do you think?

Postby jennylynne » Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:38 pm

She has lactic acidosis! Or did.....

Yeah during chelation it's hard yo time everything bc I give probiotics with most doses for yeast. I'll hit the lf harder bc i have more time.

When we did Ldn and valtrex it made her candid worse!!! We didn't know better then. We though valtrex would fix everything. Nope... She regressed...

amanda NC
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Re: I've come up with a biofilm protocol...what do you think?

Postby amanda NC » Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:33 pm

JeniB wrote:good to see that she's doing well too. I really think that if kids need thiamine, they will talk much more when they get enough of it. I think she matches my son too well not to keep giving the thiamine a bit longer to see if it helps with digestion. children will develop lactic acidosis if they are deficient in it. especially if giving lots of probiotics. This happened when infants were given a forumla that had forgotten to add thiamine to it. Most of the babies developed neurological problems and lactic acidosis.


Encephalopathy too--which my guy had.

I am alternating between two benfotiamine and a B-50 with all the Bs. Should I do both, do you think? Need to get my girls on the Bs consistently too.
Amanda, mom of 3

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Re: I've come up with a biofilm protocol...what do you think?

Postby jennylynne » Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:44 am

I have been giving her a B stress ( which is 30 mg of All B vitamins like 1,2,3,5,6..) as she was a bit stimmy on the higher dose of B6( 50mg)

I have been doing about 40mg more of benfotiamine. Do you think that is enough for a 30 lb toddler? Or would you add more benfotiamine. She is
getting 30 mg thiamine mononitrate and then like 10-15 mg Thiamine HCI or mononitrae from her Multivitamin...

It's a Doctor's best brand. It was the smallest dose of Benfotiamine I could find....( even though I am not a fan of the brand)

She has been more verbal the past few weeks..........but still not verbal. MOSTLY prompted speech... Tonight I bribed her with a kinninnik animal cookie after dinner to say ALL DONE. We tried for 5 minutes. Finally..she was saying "guh guh gookie" and crying and said..." ah dah" really fast. We IMMEDIATELY clapped and said what a good job she did and gave her the cookie. Even her little sister clapped and said " ah daune"...

Do you think we are just dosing too low total? I am very scared about doing high dose anything other than b-12 because we aren't under physician care for any of it.......

suggestions?

I don't want to be one of those moms who just want their child to talk.......but she has ALWAYS had some speech. She babbled on time!!! She used to call us Mama, and Dada. Then after she slowly regressed....language has been HELL. She KEEPS losing words and rarely using the ones she has. She is not destined to be nonverbal because she was never MUTE. KWIM? I just want to figure out what biochemically is making her brain not get the speech function sorted out. Her receptive IS delayed.....but I don't know to what extent because she is stubborn and independent( if she doesn't like it ...she won't do it....don't blame her...both DH and I are like that).

amanda NC
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Re: I've come up with a biofilm protocol...what do you think?

Postby amanda NC » Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:25 pm

Well, let me be the first to voice a word of warning on the xylitol/lactoferrin protocol.

I had been doing the protocol on myself for about a week. I have a history of kidney infections, which went away after being on the low oxalate diet for awhile. I still have to stay pretty low to avoid infections. I think it's possible that the infections are somehow related to bacteria--maybe klebsiella, as JeniB suggested in a post to me. At any rate, after that week I got a terrible infection, which then led into a horrible back ache, and achy muscles like I had the flu, and then a terrible headache, and now am left with a HORRIBLE acid stomach that I suspect might be bacteria. Bad enough to keep me awake at night; I'm back on Prevacid for the first time in years. Anyway, a BUNCH of stuff that was pretty bad. I cannot decide if this was a die-off reaction from the protocol, a severe oxalate-related reaction from the xylitol, or if I simply got overrun by bacteria. Dabaxter suggested we be careful of clostridia with this protocol; maybe this was a clostridia issue that got out of hand.

I'm better now, but have stopped the protocol here for the time being. Now my son has not had any issues, to speak of, except that he has complained of his back hurting. JeniB mentioned that she read klebsiella can acccumulate in the lower back, and I am wondering if he had this issue too.

So, I am working on figuring this out, but I will have to get myself restabilized before I take another whack at this. Discouraging! I think I was seeing good things, so perhaps balance is key here, and getting that antibiotic on board sooner than I did. I had understood it was best not to add it in right away. Maybe following up with some caprylic acid or something would be a good idea.

Sorry to rain on the parade here. Thought I should let you all know that everything isn't rosy here!
Amanda, mom of 3

mimicry
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Re: I've come up with a biofilm protocol...what do you think?

Postby mimicry » Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:15 pm

I've been reading, based on lyme research that oil pulling with coconut oil is good for oral biofilm, as well as 1-3 dietary tablespoons (it's half lauric acid) and that sodium chlorite, http://www.health-science-spirit.com/MMS.html, is a great mineral for busting others.

These have been posted as alternatives to pricey lyme biofilm products that don't work as well and cost much much more.

Sorry I haven't read the entire post! But I would suspect that the biofilm theory is yet another reason coconut oil has been so wonderful for us.


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