Zinc - Driving me crazy!

Discuss autism diets and biomedical treatments of autism.

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AspieGenes
Posts: 114
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:32 pm

Re: Zinc - Driving me crazy!

Postby AspieGenes » Sat Dec 17, 2016 8:28 pm

Zinc will increase the amount of catecholamines you make by stimulating GCH1 and PTS which increases the amount BH4. I all of the genes I have for autism they are all homozygous for rs10876864

That SNP is weird because it seems to effect Sulfite Oxidase function even though it is an intergenic SNP listed as up stream of IKZF4 (Zinc finger protein Eos). Note this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/geoprofiles/132309106

I think riboflavin and magnesium might help lower catecholamines while taking zinc. That is what I do for myself.

http://www.snpedia.com/index.php/rs10876864
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... ydrolase_I
http://www.uniprot.org/uniprot/Q03393

MelB1
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:36 pm

Re: Zinc - Driving me crazy!

Postby MelB1 » Thu May 18, 2017 7:29 pm

Hi, I just wanted to add to this thread that after 5 years of not being able to tolerate zinc supplements we have discovered the cause for us. By adding lysine/arginine ( my one son needs lysine and the other needs arginine) we are preventing the urinary loss of tryptophan and increasing copper/zinc SOD. This prevents oxidative stress from zinc. When tryptophan is catabolized some of it becomes picolinic acid which helps with zinc uptake/transport. It seems that candida and it's biproducts arabinose and ammonia were depleting arginine and lysine. William Walsh talks about arabinose cross-linking with these amino acids.We are hoping that the niacin generated from tryptophan will help eradicate chronic candida. I hope this helps someone in the future to avoid being "stuck" with this issue.

marcuswelby
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:29 pm

Re: Zinc - Driving me crazy!

Postby marcuswelby » Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:10 pm

We just started supplementing with zinc a few weeks ago and notice a significant spike in anxiety, frustration levels, and overall stimming. I'm not sure if anyone else has seen this, but so far it doesn't seem to be going well. What dosage in mg/kg are you doing?

amanda NC
Posts: 3036
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 7:41 am

Re:

Postby amanda NC » Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:54 pm

williams_dad wrote:Have you had testing for heavy metals ?
a quick look at the periodic table will show
http://www.webelements.com/
that mercury and cadmium are directly below zinc and most likely the culprits for blocking it.

I would up Selenium
but I would also try to assist the digestion of Zinc by using digestive enzymes - Betaine HCl would be your best bet there.

WD


Something a doctor explained to me has to do with what williams_dad said in this earlier post. Mercury and cadmium are directly below zinc on the periodic table; if you are really low in zinc, then mercury and cadmium will take up residence in the spots that the zinc is supposed to be in. Also, if you have really high amounts of zinc and cadmium in your world for some reason, then the mercury and cadmium will compete with zinc for the spots.

So, if the problem is that your child is not getting enough zinc, then any mercury and cadmium will settle in where the zinc was supposed to be. This was the case with my son. Honestly, a little research will show that it's pretty easy to not get much zinc in the diet. Then, when you add zinc in, the mercury and cadmium will be displaced--and will then be free in the system. And that can cause issues. This also happened to my son. The good news is that hopefully the mercury and cadmium will now get carried out of the system. There has been some speculation, actually, that some of our mercury problems are a direct result of zinc deficiency, which can be caused by stress. If the zinc was there, the body wouldn't be hanging on to the mercury. Or the cadmium. My son had a bigger problem with cadmium than mercury, actually (or at least as the tests measured it).

So going low and slow would be the answer here, so the zinc will GRADUALLY replace the mercury and cadmium. And as the chemistry changes, it is possible to have transient issues that will resolve over a little time.
Last edited by amanda NC on Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Amanda, mom of 3

williams_dad
Posts: 2968
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:47 am

Re: Re:

Postby williams_dad » Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:04 am

amanda NC wrote:Something a doctor explained to me has to do with what williams_dad said in this earlier post. Mercury and cadmium are directly below zinc on the periodic table; if you are really low in zinc, then mercury and cadmium will take up residence in the spots that the zinc is supposed to be in. Also, if you have really high amounts of zinc and cadmium in your world for some reason, then the mercury and cadmium will compete with zinc for the spots..


I've bump a post where I explained this with mommyjen
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=21817

WD
http://spectrumsleuth.fr.yuku.com/forums/11/General/General

marcuswelby
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:29 pm

Re: Zinc - Driving me crazy!

Postby marcuswelby » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:19 pm

Thanks to you both - that seems to make a lot of sense. We are a few weeks into this and certainly going slow. I thought is was my imagination at first, where he was a lot more active - stimming, running, more toe-walking, etc. But over the last few days, there has been a spike in his overall activities. He has even taken on a fear of exhaust - exhaust coming from car tailpipes, so much so that he maintains an adequate distance from cars and looks at them very suspiciously now. Some random behaviors that we have not witnessed before.

Regardless, we are going to ride this out and see where it takes us. We have been down the mineral path before, with magnesium being a complete disaster. He was all over the place - aggressive, short-fused, and angry, on top of all of his other struggles. We stopped pretty quickly on the low dose of magnesium glycinate.

On a side note, my daughter has LGS (Lennox-Gastaut Syndrome) - she is non-verbal, non-communicative, and non-ambulatory. Despite the epileptic diagnosis, she frequently displays ASD-esque symptoms, including hand-flapping, lack of eye contact, etc. In my 12 years of research and readings, I have always felt as though the more appropriate diagnosis might be a severe form of ASD. I only recently stumbled on zinc and its relevance to VGCC (voltage gated calcium channels) which is what is believed to be one of the triggers of her seizures. Needless to say, we are trying a similar slow and low zinc dosage with her, to see if there is any benefit.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4363167/
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... .12489/pdf
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2075129/

Thanks again -

Marc

Eli - 14
Mira - 12 - Lennox-Gastaut Syndrome
Jonah - 9 - ASD

amanda NC
Posts: 3036
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 7:41 am

Re: Re:

Postby amanda NC » Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:49 pm

williams_dad wrote:
amanda NC wrote:Something a doctor explained to me has to do with what williams_dad said in this earlier post. Mercury and cadmium are directly below zinc on the periodic table; if you are really low in zinc, then mercury and cadmium will take up residence in the spots that the zinc is supposed to be in. Also, if you have really high amounts of zinc and cadmium in your world for some reason, then the mercury and cadmium will compete with zinc for the spots..


I've bump a post where I explained this with mommyjen
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=21817

WD


I remember that post! What an excellent explanation. Thank you williams_dad!
Amanda, mom of 3

marcuswelby
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:29 pm

Re: Zinc - Driving me crazy!

Postby marcuswelby » Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:51 pm

So we have been doing the zinc for about 2 weeks, stopping for a day or two, here and there. The problem is, Jonah has vomited twice in the last 4 school days - once on Friday and again this morning. I think it is the zinc that is causing this, as it has happened both times in the morning, within 30-45 minutes of taking a dosage. He is only getting 7mg of elemental zinc, via a 50mg zinc gluconate. Is this too high of a dosage - he is around 65 lbs. Is zinc gluconate inferior to zinc picolinate? These are basically our only options, besides chelated zinc. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks -

Marc


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