Where are the metals with in the cell?

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mommyjen
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Where are the metals with in the cell?

Postby mommyjen » Sat Mar 13, 2010 6:40 pm

I have a question for those in the know. When there s heavy metal poisioning, where is it located within the cell. What is it blocking? And if you use something to remove it, what happens if there are not enough of whatever was originally supposed to go there. I guess what I am asking, is are metals more concentrated in certain areas because their chemical structure or something about them, is similar to what should have been in that spot, for example calcium or phosphorous vanadium. Or maybe I am not really understanding, so point me in the right direction for more infomation. Thanks a bunch!!

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williams_dad
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Re: Where are the metals with in the cell?

Postby williams_dad » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:45 am

Hi Jen

how good is your chemistry and physics

like if I said go here
http://www.webelements.com/
and find Lead and Tungsten, you could without much trouble

WD
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mommyjen
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Re: Where are the metals with in the cell?

Postby mommyjen » Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:04 am

Well I was a biology major for 2 years in college. I know lead is 82. Found that. Although I didn't tungsten but I could easily look that up I am sure :) I won't say I am super proficient but I night be able to understand if you can explain it pretty well :wink:

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williams_dad
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Re: Where are the metals with in the cell?

Postby williams_dad » Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:05 pm

This is cool
Tungsten is W, number 74 by the way
( comes from wolframite )

so you know that we have groups ( the columns ) going down and periods going across
looking at the top left hand corner of the table
http://www.webelements.com/

In the first period there are two elements Hydrogen and Helium
and in the second period there are eight elements, same in the third period
but in period four there are eighteen elements, same in period five

are we cool so far ?


WD
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mommyjen
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Re: Where are the metals with in the cell?

Postby mommyjen » Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:27 pm

Good so far :)

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williams_dad
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Re: Where are the metals with in the cell?

Postby williams_dad » Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:16 pm

OK this is good
right lets look at Hydrogen, no 1 on the periodic table
http://www.webelements.com/hydrogen/atoms.html
periodic table is here
http://www.webelements.com/
back to hydrogen, you need to find a little picture that has a black backround with 1 silver ball in the middle and 1 gold one off to the side and underneath a sentence that reads
A schematic representation of the shell structure of hydrogen - not what the atom of hydrogen "looks like".

It's the shell structure that we are really interested in !

here is the image if you still can't find it
Image

WD
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mommyjen
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Re: Where are the metals with in the cell?

Postby mommyjen » Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:15 pm

"It's the shell structure that we are really interested in !"

How so?

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williams_dad
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Re: Where are the metals with in the cell?

Postby williams_dad » Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:35 pm

yes that's right
Let's have a look at some very happy elements called "Noble gasses" which under normal circumstances don't react with any other element.

First up is Helium : two protons and two electrons
http://www.webelements.com/helium/atoms.html
so the first period has two elements ending with Helium which has two electrons in the shell or orbit

but let's have a look at the next happy element "Neon" at the end of the next period which has eight elements across ( Li, Be, B, C, N, O, F, Ne )
http://www.webelements.com/neon/atoms.html
notice there are two electrons in the first or inner shell and eight in the outer shell

Now if we look at the next happy element "Argon" which again is at the end of the next period
period 3 which is Na, Mg, Al, Si, P, S, Cl and Ar
http://www.webelements.com/argon/atoms.html
look it has three shells, first with 2, second with 8 and now a third shell with 8

Have a look at Krypton and Xenon at the end of the 4th and 5th periods and see their shell structure, what do you notice ?
http://www.webelements.com/krypton/atoms.html
http://www.webelements.com/xenon/atoms.html
also have a look at Radon
http://www.webelements.com/radon/atoms.html


WD
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williams_dad
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Re: Where are the metals with in the cell?

Postby williams_dad » Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:51 pm

So those are shell structures of happy elements
what about some very unhappy elements, elements which are VERY reactive

first up is a very unhappy element called Sodium, Sodium is a very reactive metal
basic info is here
http://www.webelements.com/sodium/
but it's the shell structure we want to see
http://www.webelements.com/sodium/atoms.html
Oh dear, like Hydrogen - Sodium has one electron in it's outer shell
to be happy like Neon it needs to lose an electron

lets have a look at Chlorine, a very reactive gas on the other side of the periodic table
http://www.webelements.com/chlorine/
and it's shell structure
http://www.webelements.com/chlorine/atoms.html
Oh dear, it has only 7 electrons in it's outer shell, to be happy like Argon it needs to gain an electron

So what happens when Sodium meets Chlorine, they form an Ionic bond
Sodium donates an electron to Chlorine, they stick together and live happily ever after
both with outer shells like their noble or inert gas neighbours
Sodium Chloride or common salt

Are we cool now with the concept of shells ( or orbits )
once we have grasped this, the next stage is relatively easy

WD
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mommyjen
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Re: Where are the metals with in the cell?

Postby mommyjen » Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:54 am

Oh yes, I am with you. I know all about that stuff :)

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williams_dad
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Re: Where are the metals with in the cell?

Postby williams_dad » Thu Mar 18, 2010 7:17 pm

giggle ... well I sort of guessed you would but with over 90 views of this thread so far, I figured there's probably a few more reading than just you and I. Anyway on with the show...

So the key to understanding how elements behave is to understand this shell or orbit business

Now this is a real simplistic explanation of one of the ways heavy metals get into a cell

When it comes to a plant wanting to take a certain nutrient out of the dirt like chromium
it can't just call out "hey I need some chromium here"
it looks for the metal with 6 electrons past the noble ( or inert ) gas column
and chromium, like molybdenum has an outer shell of 13, 1
but along comes tungsten which also has 6 electrons past the noble gas but it's shell structure is different at 2.8.18.32.12.2
result confusion, and a nutrient is taken up which sort of looks like the one we want but doesn't behave the way we want. Have a look here
http://spectrumsleuth.10.forumer.com/vi ... .php?t=220

Have a look at another element Zinc, number 30 on the periodic table and have a look at the two immediately below it, Cadmium and Mercury
when a cell calls for some zinc it is really saying I want the metal 12 past the noble gas with a outer shell structure of 18,2
look at the structures of Cadmium and Mercury - both 18,2
That is why Mercury and Cadmium really stuff up Zinc, which is responsible for hundreds of enzyme reactions in the body

Have a look at Carbon and Silicon in group 14 and look below them to see the two heavy metals which mimic them - Tin and Lead

Essentially when you see on a chart ( eg hair test or urine test ) saying there is mercury, lead etc then you can look at the periodic table, find the element in question look directly above it and see what essential elements are going to directly affected. Got Bismuth 83 or Antimony 51 look above them ( group 15 ) and see that Nitrogen and Phosphorous will be affected.

WD
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williams_dad
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Re: Where are the metals with in the cell?

Postby williams_dad » Thu Mar 18, 2010 7:23 pm

So having gone this far I might as well go out on a limb over another issue

Have a look at Copper, number 29, group 11
now look at the two heavy metals below it
Silver and Gold
Silver and Gold WILL adversely affect copper in a cell

Now I know some will say well colloidal silver kills bacteria and is beneficial
but so does mercury and a similar claim is made
they are both heavy metals, neither belong on our bodies


WD
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mommyjen
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Re: Where are the metals with in the cell?

Postby mommyjen » Fri Mar 19, 2010 4:26 pm

Okay, very interesting, which is what I figured anyway about the relationship between the types of metals and what they affect. Now they say you can't get silver out. Are some of these next to impossibly to remove. I read somewhere recently that alfalfa can remove lead.

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williams_dad
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Re: Where are the metals with in the cell?

Postby williams_dad » Fri Mar 19, 2010 9:17 pm

Not heard about alfalfa and lead, interesting... I will have to follow that up.
Not sure about Silver, I just know I wouldn't voluntarily ingest it.

Now to try carry on with your questions
Take for example the issue of Tungsten and Molybdenum

Molybdenum is used by the body to control yeast
so when there is a problem and yeast is getting of of hand
The body's cells start signalling
hey we need some of the molybdenum enzymes here
and other cells try to go into production
and they send some signals
hey we need some ingredients here including molybdenum
but among the body's store of what should be Molybdenum there is some Tungsten
The Tungsten is transported to the enzyme making dept
substituted in and the result is an enzyme which doesn't do it's job

more signalling for more enzyme
more signalling for more molybdenum
more neutralised enzymes
result yeast overgrowth

complicate the issue further with chelation that removes good minerals as well as bad
which is why some who do chelation without adequate mineral supplementation
will have tremendous yeast and digestive problems

WD
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mommyjen
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Re: Where are the metals with in the cell?

Postby mommyjen » Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:45 pm

So are these metals just free floating around all over the place. I thought the body supposedly concentrated them in certain areas or are they concentrated in these areas because this is where they have been drawn by mistake?

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OneRockAtATime
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Re: Where are the metals with in the cell?

Postby OneRockAtATime » Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:28 pm

Molybdenum is used by the body to control yeast
so when there is a problem and yeast is getting of of hand
The body's cells start signalling
hey we need some of the molybdenum enzymes here
and other cells try to go into production
and they send some signals


So is it possible that the yeast has gotten better for me over the years because I eat so much CocoNut which is what Molybdenum is made from?

williams_dad
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Re: Where are the metals with in the cell?

Postby williams_dad » Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:37 pm

mommyjen wrote:So are these metals just free floating around all over the place. I thought the body supposedly concentrated them in certain areas or are they concentrated in these areas because this is where they have been drawn by mistake?


Really good question
It it depends on how they get in the body in the first place
If through the digestive system they will be taken up by the body by mistake as in the example I gave about Tungsten and Molybdenum.
However if via vaccination, then the metals will be floating through the bloodstream causing all sorts of havoc until the body's defences can track them down.

This would appear to be the reason that some kids, like mine for example while quite severe doesn't suffer the same issues as others, he was mainly exposed by eating tuna.
But I notice it's the vaxed kids that seem to really have the side issues.

WD
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williams_dad
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Re: Where are the metals with in the cell?

Postby williams_dad » Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:41 pm

OneRockAtATime wrote:So is it possible that the yeast has gotten better for me over the years because I eat so much CocoNut which is what Molybdenum is made from?


OK just to clarify here
Molybdenum is an element, a metal - made only of electrons, protons and neutrons
Coconut might have traces of molybdenum in it but I'm not sure - but it does have an oil in it which targets yeast.

WD
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OneRockAtATime
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Re: Where are the metals with in the cell?

Postby OneRockAtATime » Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:01 pm

Ok I was mixing up 2 words Monolaurin and Molybdenum my mistake. Opps!!! :oops:

williams_dad
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Re: Where are the metals with in the cell?

Postby williams_dad » Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:09 pm

OneRockAtATime wrote:my mistake. Opps!!! :oops:


By the powers invested in me blah blah blah
Holy bio-med jedi warrior etc etc
master of multi-mineral combat
and friend of DGDavis

you are forgiven


WD
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