My supplement/drug list for ASD

Discuss autism diets and biomedical treatments of autism.

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FatherOf2
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Re: My supplement/drug list for ASD

Postby FatherOf2 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:29 pm

This is interesting, fresh off the press: "Dementia and low brain serotonin may be linked" https://www.news-medical.net/news/20170814/Dementia-and-low-brain-serotonin-may-be-linked-Study-finds.aspx
This new study on persons with early stages of memory decline showed conclusively that serotonin loss was causing the memory loss rather than the other way round... In a normal brain when a message comes via a neuron, the neuron releases serotonin at its end. This is detected by the next neuron receiving the message. Once the message is propagated, there is a serotonin transporter SERT that picks up the serotonin and takes it back to the message-sending neuron. This shows up as the flow of the chemical serotonin. The serotonin neurons and transporters reduce with age in normal persons. As the neurons die with age, the SERTs also reduce in number. One group of drugs that improve brain serotonin levels are the drugs that block the brain's reuptake of serotonin (known as SSRIs or Selective Serotonin reuptake inhibitors)... But these drugs need adequate number of serotonin transporters or SERTs in the brain to work, and that was missing among those with cognitive decline. That is probably why SSRIs do not show as much success as expected.

Without diving deep into SERT's, I quickly searched what would activate them. It appears PKC inhibitors activate SERT's. They are Quercetin and Luteolin (strongest) followed by Curcumin, Reservatrol, and Skull Cap. Interestingly, EGCG activates PKC, which probably explains why my son became more autistic on EGCG (see my previous post here). Lack of serotonin activity is probably the most important cause of autism. By the way PKC = protein kinase C.

So, the message here is take an SSRI (e.g. Lexapro) with a SERT activator such as Quercetin or Luteolin.

Marya
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Re: My supplement/drug list for ASD

Postby Marya » Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:29 am

FatherOf2 wrote:I give B3 as part of Doctor's Best Fully Active B-Complex. It has 50mg of B3 as niacin and niacinamide. I used to give it individually as niacinamide years ago. But I didn't see anything except for flushes. I don't see anything from the B-complex either. I am just giving it as a vitamin, not a treatment. I have read about B3 (+ vit C) helping schizophrenics and even wrote a lengthy post about it here. As with any other supplement, you have to try it and see if does anything.

I like Galantamine, but I wouldn't put it on the list of best supplements/drugs because its effect lasts only 2-3 weeks in my son. During those 2-3 weeks, the effect is very noticeable, my son is more talkative and social, but hyperactive too. When I told our doctor about the short-lasting effect of Galantamine, he was very surprised. Piracetam effect lasted for months until the gains plateaued. But at least they didn't disappear like in Galantamine's case. Piracetam helped my son to start talking when he was 3, which was great. I tried Piracetam several times in the last 5 years, but all it does is to make my son talk to himself, which I don't like. Interestingly EGCG made my son talk to himself too, do more funky hand movements, seemed to be more detached, and count all day long. Depending on the child's skills (can talk or not, can count or not) those "side effects" can either be a progress or a regression. I didn't put Galantamine or Piracetam on the list because you only asked for the best supplements/medications that I was giving to my son right now.

Thanks for your post. I'm interested in Choline treatment that's why I asked about Galantamine and I was wondering where it is gone from your list.
I've done my research about Choline treatment for Schizophrenics, here is a clinical trials https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00232349
And here is a research about it https://psychneuro.wordpress.com/2012/0 ... promotion/
I think I will try it myself as CDP-Choline then I would try it on my brother. Galantamine will be the life saver at least for me.

Marya
Posts: 212
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:14 pm

Re: My supplement/drug list for ASD

Postby Marya » Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:35 am

FatherOf2 wrote:This is interesting, fresh off the press: "Dementia and low brain serotonin may be linked" https://www.news-medical.net/news/20170814/Dementia-and-low-brain-serotonin-may-be-linked-Study-finds.aspx
This new study on persons with early stages of memory decline showed conclusively that serotonin loss was causing the memory loss rather than the other way round... In a normal brain when a message comes via a neuron, the neuron releases serotonin at its end. This is detected by the next neuron receiving the message. Once the message is propagated, there is a serotonin transporter SERT that picks up the serotonin and takes it back to the message-sending neuron. This shows up as the flow of the chemical serotonin. The serotonin neurons and transporters reduce with age in normal persons. As the neurons die with age, the SERTs also reduce in number. One group of drugs that improve brain serotonin levels are the drugs that block the brain's reuptake of serotonin (known as SSRIs or Selective Serotonin reuptake inhibitors)... But these drugs need adequate number of serotonin transporters or SERTs in the brain to work, and that was missing among those with cognitive decline. That is probably why SSRIs do not show as much success as expected.

Without diving deep into SERT's, I quickly searched what would activate them. It appears PKC inhibitors activate SERT's. They are Quercetin and Luteolin (strongest) followed by Curcumin, Reservatrol, and Skull Cap. Interestingly, EGCG activates PKC, which probably explains why my son became more autistic on EGCG (see my previous post here). Lack of serotonin activity is probably the most important cause of autism. By the way PKC = protein kinase C.

So, the message here is take an SSRI (e.g. Lexapro) with a SERT activator such as Quercetin or Luteolin.

Thank you for sharing this study FatherOf2. It reminds me of 5-HTP and Tryptophan. I never tried EGCG but I've been drinking fresh green tea which has EGCG and I didn't like it.
However have a look at this post please http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/52 ... c-factors/
Lion's Mane Mushroom (Hericium erinaceus)
Stimulates NGF. An isolated biopolymer in Lion's Mane was found to be more effective than NGF or BDNF. (http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19003308)

salempeacock
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Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2016 1:19 pm

Re: My supplement/drug list for ASD

Postby salempeacock » Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:51 pm

Fatherof2,
You said galantamine's effect did not last. You combined it with memantine or gave it separately? Some parents say galantamine and memantine jointly gives good results.

salempeacock
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2016 1:19 pm

Re: My supplement/drug list for ASD

Postby salempeacock » Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:58 pm

Fatherof2,
Does creatine helps to get some muscle mass and weight? My grandson is small, skinny and underweight for his age. But energetic and hyper. His plasma creatinine is very very low. So we plan to add creatine supplement.

FatherOf2
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Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:37 am

Re: My supplement/drug list for ASD

Postby FatherOf2 » Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:10 am

salempeacock wrote:Fatherof2,
Does creatine helps to get some muscle mass and weight? My grandson is small, skinny and underweight for his age. But energetic and hyper. His plasma creatinine is very very low. So we plan to add creatine supplement.

Creatine didn't add any muscle weight in my son. But it did make his muscle stronger. He is still very lean, 6% on weight for his age (8y) despite all the fat that we give him (85% lean meat, pizza, whole milk, ...) He wouldn't drink milkshakes that have 500 calories per serving. And I don't give him cakes because of sugar.

Sharond
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Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:51 pm

Re: My supplement/drug list for ASD

Postby Sharond » Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:34 am

This post is so extremely helpful!

Hanuviji
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:59 pm

Re: My supplement/drug list for ASD

Postby Hanuviji » Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:58 pm

Hi fatherof2,

I am planning to try quecertin , nac -sustain and mct oil for my son. Can you please suggest dosage for these supplements?. My ds is 3 years old. His main issues are focus, speech and stimming.

Thanks,
Viji

FatherOf2
Posts: 1664
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:37 am

Re: My supplement/drug list for ASD

Postby FatherOf2 » Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:03 pm

Hanuviji wrote:Hi fatherof2,

I am planning to try quecertin , nac -sustain and mct oil for my son. Can you please suggest dosage for these supplements?. My ds is 3 years old. His main issues are focus, speech and stimming.

Thanks,
Viji


Qurecetin, brand: MRM with QU995, start with half a capsule (250mg)
NAC Sustain, brand Jarrow, start with half tablet (300mg). Clinical studies started with 900mg 1x/day and went up to 900mg 2x/day on ages 3-10y.
MCT Oil, half a teaspoon

I observed my son today at school. Still a lot of stimming on 300mg NAC. I will be increasing it to full tablet tomorrow. He is 8y. Focus is very bad too.

Hanuviji
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:59 pm

Re: My supplement/drug list for ASD

Postby Hanuviji » Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:58 pm

FatherOf2 wrote:
Hanuviji wrote:Hi fatherof2,

I am planning to try quecertin , nac -sustain and mct oil for my son. Can you please suggest dosage for these supplements?. My ds is 3 years old. His main issues are focus, speech and stimming.

Thanks,
Viji


Qurecetin, brand: MRM with QU995, start with half a capsule (250mg)
NAC Sustain, brand Jarrow, start with half tablet (300mg). Clinical studies started with 900mg 1x/day and went up to 900mg 2x/day on ages 3-10y.
MCT Oil, half a teaspoon

I observed my son today at school. Still a lot of stimming on 300mg NAC. I will be increasing it to full tablet tomorrow. He is 8y. Focus is very bad too.


Thank you so much

FatherOf2
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Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:37 am

Re: My supplement/drug list for ASD

Postby FatherOf2 » Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:29 pm

I started giving my son Perfect Rhodiola rosea, 200mg in the morning, 1 week ago. His attention and language improved markedly, he became more aware. For example, if I talk to someone while he is the room, he now listens to our conversation and makes comments about something we said. Before, I had to ask him directly to get any response. His sentences became more complicated. We have a train table that I bought when he was 2. He never really played it. Suddenly, he developed an interest and started playing with it (he is 8 now). Rhodiola increases dopamine and serotonin and reduces cortisol. I think I am seeing the dopamine action. At the same time, I am "retiring" Bumetanide. I never saw anything from it.

Nikkie111
Posts: 353
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2015 6:26 am

Re: My supplement/drug list for ASD

Postby Nikkie111 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:11 am

FatherOf2 wrote:I started giving my son Perfect Rhodiola rosea, 200mg in the morning, 1 week ago. His attention and language improved markedly, he became more aware. For example, if I talk to someone while he is the room, he now listens to our conversation and makes comments about something we said. Before, I had to ask him directly to get any response. His sentences became more complicated. We have a train table that I bought when he was 2. He never really played it. Suddenly, he developed an interest and started playing with it (he is 8 now). Rhodiola increases dopamine and serotonin and reduces cortisol. I think I am seeing the dopamine action. At the same time, I am "retiring" Bumetanide. I never saw anything from it.


I started giving it too with omega3, high acetyl carnitine and choline after I saw this combination work on me last week pretty radically and he's actually doing pretty good! Mind you, I do have him on 1 cycloferon every other day, but since I added the Rhodiola with the other stuff he's a few levels up - went to a b'day party yesterday and didn't want to leave cause he was playing with his friends. I just hope we don't hit a plateau!
Buhner is a major advocate of rhodiola as well and after some research I noticed that it's preferred over SSRIs

FatherOf2
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Re: My supplement/drug list for ASD

Postby FatherOf2 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:56 am

That's great, Nikkie. I made a note from some website that Rhodiola should be taken 4 weeks on / 2 weeks off.
Other things on my list:
- check TSH and consider levothyroxine to reduce TSH if elevated. Levothyroxine is one of two top interventions (the other one is LDN) mentioned on ME/CFS boards for immune modulation.
- consider alternating between Rhodiola and Chinese Skullcap (must be taken on empty stomach), another dopamine boosting herb praised by those who benefit from Rhodiola. Chinese Skullcap contains substances which increase GABA function. So, it increases attention in a calm way.
- consider Cordyceps - seems very good against anxiety. Some report that it brings mental calmness allowing to focus better.

Nikkie111
Posts: 353
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Re: My supplement/drug list for ASD

Postby Nikkie111 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:13 am

FatherOf2 wrote:That's great, Nikkie. I made a note from some website that Rhodiola should be taken 4 weeks on / 2 weeks off.
Other things on my list:
- check TSH and consider levothyroxine to reduce TSH if elevated. Levothyroxine is one of two top interventions (the other one is LDN) mentioned on ME/CFS boards for immune modulation.
- consider alternating between Rhodiola and Chinese Skullcap (must be taken on empty stomach), another dopamine boosting herb praised by those who benefit from Rhodiola. Chinese Skullcap contains substances which increase GABA function. So, it increases attention in a calm way.
- consider Cordyceps - seems very good against anxiety. Some report that it brings mental calmness allowing to focus better.


ah ok didn't realise that you have to take it on and off, it could be cause of its immune normalisation function - body gets used to all these immune meds if we don't do on/off....thanks for that

I have cordyceps but I thought they didn't do much, but now googling a bit, it seems that they increase NK Cells function, so I'm starting again asap but probably giving more!!!

Chinese Skull cap has been fantastic for viruses for us but hasn't done much cognitively to the Rodiola level and LDN is scaring me a bit as it kind of suppresses the immune so stopped it for now!! Going back to cordyceps as off tonight plus I'll try to find the Rhodiola brand you've been using, it's difficult to find it in UK :( ! thank you so much!!

FatherOf2
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Re: My supplement/drug list for ASD

Postby FatherOf2 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:08 pm

The good reviews about Cordyceps that I have read were specifically about Cordyceps militaris from realmushrooms, taken at 3g 2x/day on empty stomach. One guy claimed that it worked better than NAC, which already gave him strong mental calmness and made him more social.
Last edited by FatherOf2 on Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Nikkie111
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Re: My supplement/drug list for ASD

Postby Nikkie111 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:34 pm

Yes I have this one http://www.myconutri.com/cordyceps/ that has militaris extract as well- just restarted it on my little one who's a tough nut to crack!!! So will give more often
Are you starting it? It'd be good to see how it acts on your son
Thanks a lot for the tip!!

FatherOf2
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Re: My supplement/drug list for ASD

Postby FatherOf2 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:40 pm

Nikkie111 wrote:Yes I have this one http://www.myconutri.com/cordyceps/ that has militaris extract as well- just restarted it on my little one who's a tough nut to crack!!! So will give more often
Are you starting it? It'd be good to see how it acts on your son
Thanks a lot for the tip!!

I will start it once Rhodiola exhaust its action, probably one month from now. Because both Rhodiola and Cordyceps are adaptogens (protect adrenal glands, increase ATP production), increase dopamine receptor activity (good for motivation and focus), activate AMPA receptors (reduce anxiety), and inhibit acetylcholine esterase (boost acetylcholine and cognition), I don't want to enhance or mix their actions. But some articles suggest that Cordyceps and Rhodiola are synergistic.

I came to understand that dopamine is very important for autistic kids. My son has always had this sleepy, "don't care" look, until we started Rhodiola. Now he is curious, playful (especially imaginative play shot up) and verbal. We have to be aware about the following spectrum of dopamine effect:
- low dopamine activity: lack of motivation, focus, imagination
- normal dopamine activity: normal motivation, focus, imagination
- high dopamine activity: motivation grows into mania, imagination grows into hallucination, we get schizophrenia on this end of the spectrum.

So, everything is good in moderation.

Marya
Posts: 212
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:14 pm

Re: My supplement/drug list for ASD

Postby Marya » Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:24 pm

FatherOf2 wrote:I will start it once Rhodiola exhaust its action, probably one month from now. Because both Rhodiola and Cordyceps are adaptogens (protect adrenal glands, increase ATP production), increase dopamine receptor activity (good for motivation and focus), activate AMPA receptors (reduce anxiety), and inhibit acetylcholine esterase (boost acetylcholine and cognition), I don't want to enhance or mix their actions. But some articles suggest that Cordyceps and Rhodiola are synergistic.

Does Rhodiola do all of that? That's amazing indeed, protect adernal gland, increase ATP, AMPA, Acetylcholine. How it could be better!

I came to understand that dopamine is very important for autistic kids. My son has always had this sleepy, "don't care" look, until we started Rhodiola. Now he is curious, playful (especially imaginative play shot up) and verbal. We have to be aware about the following spectrum of dopamine effect:
- low dopamine activity: lack of motivation, focus, imagination
- normal dopamine activity: normal motivation, focus, imagination
- high dopamine activity: motivation grows into mania, imagination grows into hallucination, we get schizophrenia on this end of the spectrum.

So, everything is good in moderation

I've started to take Rhodiola as well today. 400mg from NOW company. I do have sleepy(don't care look) as well, and it got better with CDP-Choline but relapsed since started Sarcosine. I've decided to take Rhodiola since my low motivation and energy became severe.
will report here the results.

Nikkie111
Posts: 353
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2015 6:26 am

Re: My supplement/drug list for ASD

Postby Nikkie111 » Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:42 pm

FatherOf2 wrote:
Nikkie111 wrote:Yes I have this one http://www.myconutri.com/cordyceps/ that has militaris extract as well- just restarted it on my little one who's a tough nut to crack!!! So will give more often
Are you starting it? It'd be good to see how it acts on your son
Thanks a lot for the tip!!

I will start it once Rhodiola exhaust its action, probably one month from now. Because both Rhodiola and Cordyceps are adaptogens (protect adrenal glands, increase ATP production), increase dopamine receptor activity (good for motivation and focus), activate AMPA receptors (reduce anxiety), and inhibit acetylcholine esterase (boost acetylcholine and cognition), I don't want to enhance or mix their actions. But some articles suggest that Cordyceps and Rhodiola are synergistic.

I came to understand that dopamine is very important for autistic kids. My son has always had this sleepy, "don't care" look, until we started Rhodiola. Now he is curious, playful (especially imaginative play shot up) and verbal. We have to be aware about the following spectrum of dopamine effect:
- low dopamine activity: lack of motivation, focus, imagination
- normal dopamine activity: normal motivation, focus, imagination
- high dopamine activity: motivation grows into mania, imagination grows into hallucination, we get schizophrenia on this end of the spectrum.

So, everything is good in moderation.

Yeeees! That bloody "don't care" look, I know all about it!
He s been better for a while on this but he does tend to be awful every 3 days so I now wonder if it's a dopamine issue! I thought it was viral related...

Wow Fo2 you gave me loads to think about!!
I started cordyceps on my 3yo who's actually not on rhodiola and he's had a brilliant day so not sure if it's related but watching with interest!
So let's focus on increasing that dopamine (for us as well!!!))
You actually really helped me on that one thank you so so much!!

Marya
Posts: 212
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:14 pm

Re: My supplement/drug list for ASD

Postby Marya » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:49 pm

I took 500mg NOW Rhodiola yesterday and it gave me a very good energy and motivation. After I was exhausted and couldn't leave my bed I felt very well. However, I noticed that I over conclude things, interrupt people, and I can be inpatient( I think I need to boost GABA while on Rhodiola). I haven't taken it today since I still have some energy from yesterday. I think I will reduce the dose to half capsule 250mg, and will cycle it with CDP-Choline in 2 weeks or less.
I had my blood test done today to check Folic acid and B12, in case came up with deficiency or low level would consider Methylation treatment and cut down in some supplements.


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